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November 15th, 2017, 02:41
You can kill much stronger enemies up to a point. It's just very difficult without utilizing NPCs to help.
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November 15th, 2017, 02:42
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Then risen 3 did it wrong. The souls series and souls like games do it and are extremely challenging. It doesn’t matter though I have no intention of turning this into a PB games vs DS thread. They’re different types of games and I play them for different reasons. I mearly referenced it to get an idea of the system used.
It's not about doing it "wrong". It's a design choice. Souls games are challenging and can be solo'd at level 1, great. You can't do that in ELEX. They force you to use the RPG mechanics to level up, get better gear and abilities.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
You can kill much stronger enemies up to a point. It's just very difficult without utilizing NPCs to help.
True. And you can spend 2 hours on a boss like the IGN reviewer if you really want to, I guess. Obviously not how the game was designed to be played, though.
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November 15th, 2017, 02:45
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
True. And you can spend 2 hours on a boss like the IGN reviewer if you really want to, I guess. Obviously not how the game was designed to be played, though.
One day, you'll stop worrying so much about how other people choose to play and realize not everyone lives in Fluent's world.
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November 15th, 2017, 02:46
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
One day, you'll stop worrying so much about how other people choose to play.
Uh, okay?

Next review I do I'll choose to fight an impossible troll at level 1 and spend 2 hours fighting it then complain to my 9 million subscribers how the game is broken.

I'll then play Dark Souls and run directly into a wall then complain how the wall won't move allowing me to progress.

Hey, more power to you if that's what you want to do. But don't be upset if I call that NOT playing the game how it was designed to be played.

If, on the other hand, you think PB designed the game to spend 2 hours fighting a troll, by all means, go ahead and make that argument. I'll wait.
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November 15th, 2017, 02:52
Like I said, Fluent's world.

In the real world, people like to try different things even if they might seem odd or counterintuitive to you.

I'm just poking fun at you though. You act like sakichop wants to commit a sin.
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November 15th, 2017, 03:00
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
Uh, okay?

Next review I do I'll choose to fight an impossible troll at level 1 and spend 2 hours fighting it then complain to my 9 million subscribers how the game is broken.

I'll then play Dark Souls and run directly into a wall then complain how the wall won't move allowing me to progress.

Hey, more power to you if that's what you want to do. But don't be upset if I call that NOT playing the game how it was designed to be played.

If, on the other hand, you think PB designed the game to spend 2 hours fighting a troll, by all means, go ahead and make that argument. I'll wait.
You have 9 million subscribers? Impressive.

Make sure you donít run in to a breakable Wall in DS or you wonít be able to complain.

I think Jdr was just saying itís possible and itís ok for people to play a game the way they want even if itís not how the developers envisioned it.

In my experience playing a game your own way can result in a lot of fun…. or sometimes not.
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November 15th, 2017, 03:03
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Like I said, Fluent's world.

In the real world, people like to try different things even if they might seem odd or counterintuitive to you.

I'm just poking fun at you though. You act like sakichop wants to commit a sin.
How do you know I donít. mhahahahHah.
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November 15th, 2017, 03:22
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
In my experience playing a game your own way can result in a lot of funÖ. or sometimes not.
True. But I also think that a reviewer with 9 million subscribers probably has a responsibility to at least try to accurately review a product. That means a basic understand of how it works.

I didn't think this was a controversial opinion, but hey, it's coming from me, so that adds about +5 to my Controversy To-Hit rolls.
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November 15th, 2017, 07:43
Originally Posted by Wisdom View Post
Actually all the PB games so far (aside from Elex) you can do this.
I finished Risen 1-2 last year again with 1 point in swords, minimal points in str (just enough to be able to wield the sword). Everything can be killed by dodge and repeated strikes. Just dont' get hit, it'll one shot you.

As for Gothic, we literally played a forum game seeing how far you can go on level 1 because dodge is so powerful.

While its fun, I'm glad they changed up the formula a bit.
Yup, in the Gothic games (1 & 2 at least) you could eat almost anything level 1.
I remember actually spending the time beating a elder troll or whatever it was called with a branch by running around it a million times.

The good old days, right ?

In Risen 2 you could beat everything by using the curse spell
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November 15th, 2017, 10:52
I'll wait until I've played it some more before coming to any final conclusion. That said, it was certainly my clear impression that the game did NOT want me to fight pretty much anything beyond the tutorial enemies or rats for at least 10 hours.

Also, they've severely reduced XP rewards for defeating monsters compared to previous PB games - which is yet another hint for the player not to bother.

I quite enjoy having fights be worthwhile, especially when they're hard - so that's another design decision I don't agree with.

I'm not really into exclusively quest based progression - and certainly not when I can't explore without constantly having to escape fights with trivial enemies.

I'm mostly into freeform exploration, doing what I want in whatever order I wish - with a good mix of both combat and questing.

I very much enjoy being challenged by enemies - and having to run away from tough ones (because I know I'll be back for some cathartic revenge later), but not everything all the time.

I mean, I tried and tried and tried with all the enemies I encountered - and except for cheesing a little with the bow, it was just too frustrating to be the intended way to play.

So, I'm with Fluent at this point. Obviously, it's the intended design that the player should steer clear of beasties (almost all of them) for several hours.

Yes, I know about the Flamethrower - but I would never play the game like that.

To me, the fun of progression is not the waiting part - it's the sensation of growing in power - and it's key that it's not a pushover during the beginning stages.

Since I couldn't actually fight anything without dying - there's really no sense of progression until I hit a point during progression when things slowly turn around. Meaning, there's no incline in the progression curve until I'm several hours into it.

In Risen and Gothic - the progression was there immediately - and you could actually reach a decent initial power level just by grinding entry-level enemies, because they gave a generous amount of XP. Which was perfect - because they WERE hard to fight.

But I could have just missed something and I don't know how big a difference the difficulty level made. Also, I have no doubt there are "optimal" ways to build your character and things to find that will make everything trivial. But that's not really what I'm on about.
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November 15th, 2017, 11:38
Keep playing Dart. You should start to notice nice progression. Enemies, by the time you can kill them, start giving decent XP. It takes time but it starts to come together nicely the more you play.

If you don't want to power spec, then stick to social quests and try to make a friend as soon as you can. Stick to runts at first too.
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November 15th, 2017, 11:40
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
Keep playing Dart. You should start to notice nice progression. Enemies, by the time you can kill them, start giving decent XP. It takes time but it starts to come together nicely the more you play.

If you don't want to power spec, then stick to social quests and try to make a friend as soon as you can. Stick to runts at first too.
I'll start over - I always do

I want to join the Clerics ASAP - so I'll look into how to go about it.
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November 15th, 2017, 11:43
The game is complex, very much so, IMO. If you want to use Cleric ranged weapons then Dex and Int are needed.

Ignadon is very dangerous, too. Be careful there.
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November 15th, 2017, 15:29
The XP from enemies is inconsistent, but I don't think it's lacking in the overall scheme. I think they had to balance it the way they did due to how large and lengthy the game is.

Certain monsters should have a higher reward though, and the XP from human enemies seems disproportionately generous.
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November 16th, 2017, 10:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
True for the most part, but there are some exceptions. There's a quest involving the recruitment of a certain companion that I thought was very poorly balanced.
Right, and that doesn't happen in Gothic 2. In ELEX you'll get asked to kill both heavy mechs and even worse (such as via the quests you mentioned) long, long before being able to kill them.
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