Anyone else here train in the gym

I'm not a personal trainer but I've built mass and been on many a diet before (like right now actually ;) ) and watched dozens upon dozens of YT clips including those of personal trainers and pro bb'ers so here's my "bro science" take.

For starters, an important thing to keep in mind is this rule of thumb:

1g protein = about 4kcal
1g carbs = about 4kcal
1g fat = 9kcal

So as we can see, protein and carbs have the same multiplier while fat has a MUCH higher multiplier.

If you want to build mass and not get unreasonably fat in the process then you should eat about 2g of protein per kg of body weight. For me, at 80kg body weight, I'd try to hit ~160g protein/day which would put my protein-based calorie intake at around 640kcal (x 4 multiplier).

Carbs and fat distribution don't really matter very much when you are trying to build muscle. Don't go overboard with fat though. 1g to 1.5g per kg body weight should do. Fill up the rest with carbs to have enough energy for your heavy workouts.

When you are trying to lose weight, however, then -obviously- you should reduce fat because of its high x9 multiplier so if you want to maintain muscle mass in a diet as much as possible, you should eat the same 2g of protein per kg body weight, reduce fat to about 0.5g of fat per kg body weight and fill up the rest with carbs up to your daily max calories.

Finally, as for the daily max calories, whether it is in your bulk or your lean phase, you just have to experiment because no two bodies are the same. Your daily activity level matters, your specific metabolism matters, your workout routine matters, there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

So you just have to experiment, e.g. when bulking and trying to put on "lean" mass, you could start with taking in anywhere between 3000 and 4000kcal per day and watch what happens. Do you put on weight, do you gain muscle and strength, do you gain muscle but also too much fat at the same time? Then adjust your calorie intake accordingly.

Same with a diet. You could start with a moderate deficit and e.g. eat 2000kcal/day. Then check after a week. Did you lose a reasonable amount of weight (~1kg = reasonable)? If yes, keep at it. If no, increase the deficit moderately and try maybe 1800kcal as a next step.
If you lost an unreasonable amount of weight, like 2kg+ in a week then increase your calorie intake to protect your muscle mass better.

In a nutshell: Check. Adjust. Check. Adjust. Check. Adjust. Or don't adjust but just keep at it if it works, of course. Be patient and don't cheat. That is all there is to it. It is really simple actually. You just have to do it is all :) .

I highly appreciate your help - but as you can see above, I'm already (pretty much) aware of those things :)

We seem to be similar in size - and that's almost exactly the amount of protein I consume when I'm building mass.

My question was more related to my LPR condition!
 
When I was younger I went 5 or 6 times a week. Now I only go 2 1/2 times a week. I did take a 18 months off after 30 years of working out. I go now mostly because it seems like the thing to do but don't really enjoy it any more. Will probably quite for good in a couple of years.

Anyone else here a gym rat or into body building?

I spent 25 years in the gym and took the last two years off. I have been back now for the last 5 months and back to 270lbs 6'2" or 123kg, 188cm.

Still trying to lose a bit of body fat and maybe put on a bit more size….
 
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Weird. I have to walk around 30 miles a week which works out to 1500 miles a year but i don't get much in the way of calf muscles.

Btw for folks who want to walk just move to Boston and sell your car.

I don't go to the gym, but I've walked just over 1,000 miles in the past year so I have lovely calf muscles.
 
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Too many injuries over the years, continual back pains, etc, means it'll never happen again most likely. I should at least walk more.
 
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I've always been a fan of progressive overload. If you want to get big, you have to lift heavy weights. More weight/more reps every visit should be the goal. It isn't always possible, especially after the 2 year mark when gains get harder, but it should be the goal. And for the love of god, don't skip leg days. If you aren't doing deadlifts and squats, you're hamstringing your gains.

People also forget there's a trifecta - lift heavy, eat healthy, and get enough restful sleep. Failing to do one of these pillars well can dramatically slow down results. Stress also plays a role, so try to do what you can to manage it.

Nutrient dense food should be the main staple of a diet. Empty calories will add weight, but also a lot of fat, which is rarely the goal. I've never been a fan of nutrient macros (x grams of y per lb). Mix lean meat with a lot of veggies, and try to eat colorfully.

And yes, free weights are king. You can move a ton of weight on a machine, and hardly anything on the same exercise free weights because the stabilizer muscles have become a limiting factor from non usage.

Now personally, I absolutely hate cardio. I've never cared about having the best 6 pack possible, so others might have better advice in this area. If I'm going to do it, it's hill sprints. I personally prefer intermittent cardio to the traditional approach.
 
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Weird. I have to walk around 30 miles a week which works out to 1500 miles a year but i don't get much in the way of calf muscles.

Btw for folks who want to walk just move to Boston and sell your car.

That is very strange. Not sure what the reason could be tbh. Are you a visiting alien from Alpha Centauri?
 
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I've always been a fan of progressive overload. If you want to get big, you have to lift heavy weights. More weight/more reps every visit should be the goal. It isn't always possible, especially after the 2 year mark when gains get harder, but it should be the goal. And for the love of god, don't skip leg days. If you aren't doing deadlifts and squats, you're hamstringing your gains.

People also forget there's a trifecta - lift heavy, eat healthy, and get enough restful sleep. Failing to do one of these pillars well can dramatically slow down results. Stress also plays a role, so try to do what you can to manage it.

Nutrient dense food should be the main staple of a diet. Empty calories will add weight, but also a lot of fat, which is rarely the goal. I've never been a fan of nutrient macros (x grams of y per lb). Mix lean meat with a lot of veggies, and try to eat colorfully.

And yes, free weights are king. You can move a ton of weight on a machine, and hardly anything on the same exercise free weights because the stabilizer muscles have become a limiting factor from non usage.

Now personally, I absolutely hate cardio. I've never cared about having the best 6 pack possible, so others might have better advice in this area. If I'm going to do it, it's hill sprints. I personally prefer intermittent cardio to the traditional approach.

What the man says here. Also what type of meal/protein you consume adjust to your workout.
Strong, slow digesting meal two hours before work out ( but not too "heavy"), quick liquid form right after ( chocolate milk, for example, if not using supplements).
At least 2 hours of rest after training…I know some people who straight away hit the bed.
Some prefer 6 meals a day ( three hours intervals), others less amount but more substantial…this can depend lot on metabolism.
What you gain, depends the most on that recuperating window of opportunity.
And core of training, should be always be classic routines…dead lifts, squats, bench press, etc.
I see people who waste a lot of time on things like classic abs pull ups, but you need to do like a million every time to see any results…there are far better routines that take far less time ( in this case, for abs ( and lower back) dumb bell pulls using it like a wheel and your body as lever)
 
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The reason free weights are better then machines is that you have to use your stabilizer muscles with free weights. You have to have good form and body control with free weights or you can hurt yourself.

I have lifted weights since I was 14 and am still the same weight I was in college at 47. 6'2'' and 200 pounds. I don't go as heavy now of course but I still do free weights mostly. I have added a lot of own body weight exercises as I get older. Ex. push ups, pull ups, sit ups and dips.

If you have never done free weights before I would recommend to get a trainer or work out partner at first that knows what they are doing. Very easy to hurt your back or shoulders with wrong form.

Well I do us a lot of free weights, no straight bar movements at all any more(only dumbbells) Cable machines offer a lot more control and better negative movements.

One of my guys I have trained with for years is 27, 315 lbs getting ready to try for his pro card and uses more machines then free weights.

I say whatever works for you might not work for the next person.
 
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As a personal trainer, what would you advise in terms of getting sufficient protein and calories to build mass - if I had to limit the (physical) amount of food I can eat as much as possible?

A few years ago when I took it more seriously, I would take in 150 grams of protein from shakes. Then the rest would come from all the beef and chicken. I averaged 7000 to 10000 cal a day over 8 meals.

Now I don't eat that much but all is very lean protein and tons of vegs.
 
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Okay there is some talk here about how much to eat what to eat lifting heavy more reps less reps.

It really comes down to what works for you.

Derek(AKA freak muscle) I will post his new youtube page in the next week or so. Has worked with me for years and then after a few shows took on a real name in world of BB as is trainer.

He looked his worst on stage taking this advice, not to say the person he hired was bad, he has trained some big names in the sport. Just everyone is different. You really have to try different things and see what works for you.
 
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I'm just wondering what the science behind massive amounts of calories would be.

Again, I'm far from an expert - but it's my understanding that muscle mass is primarily built from protein - not calories in themselves. Meaning, carbs and fat shouldn't contribute much at all - and excess protein has clearly been established as unnecessary.

So, what would be the advantage of eating 10000 calories? I mean, even if you're a big guy - that sounds like a ridiculous amount - unless you also happen to burn at least 9000 calories - which would take a LOT of activity on a daily basis :)

With my limited understanding, all that would do would be to make you fat ;)
 
If you aren't doing deadlifts and squats, you're hamstringing your gains.

Quoted for truth, and the great pun. Machines fill an important role certainly, they're great for beginners without much control and if we're talking heavy eccentric training or pre-/rehab they can be invaluable.

But as soon as a person is able to perform the classical free weight lifts, pulls and presses with a good technique, that's where the major part of your training routine should be. Dead lift, Squat , Lunge, Pullup, Bench Press, Shoulder Press, Row, Carries.
Cables, Barbells, Kettlebells, Dumbells, Body weight. All good.
 
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So, what would be the advantage of eating 10000 calories? I mean, even if you're a big guy - that sounds like a ridiculous amount - unless you also happen to burn at least 9000 calories - which would take a LOT of activity on a daily basis

Agreed. I can understand if Michael Phelbs or other endurance athletes with ridiculous amounts of training hours comes close to that number, but I'm pretty sure most people would only get fat. On the other hand, it obviously works for some people, and if it works don't try to fix it. But not a diet I would recommend to anyone unless their goal is to get as heavy as possible…a Sumo wrestler perhaps?
 
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Agreed. I can understand if Michael Phelbs or other endurance athletes with ridiculous amounts of training hours comes close to that number, but I'm pretty sure most people would only get fat. On the other hand, it obviously works for some people, and if it works don't try to fix it. But not a dietI would recommend to anyone unless their goal is to get as heavy as possible…a Sumo wrestler perhaps?

Hehe, obviously they would build a lot of muscle as well - you just wouldn't be able to tell from looking at them ;)

That said, sure, if it works it works. Some people are supposed to have an insane metabolism - even without that much activity.

I've always been sceptical of that, though, but I guess it must be true.
 
I've always been sceptical of that, though, but I guess it must be true.

Usually the people with "insane metabolism" just have habits that make it seem like they do. People used to claim I had that because they saw my huge evening meals. What they failed to see was my active lifestyle and my lack of appetite in the mornings and even during the day.

Sure there are individual variations, but I doubt we're talking bigger variations than a few hundred kcal/day (if even that) if two people are both sedated and in bed (and weigh exactly the same with the same lean mass and the same cardiovascular and musculat premises. Which is of course only a theoretical exercise because you won't find two people that are exactly the same). People do tend to have variations based on if they can sit still or if they're always fiddling and moving around. It adds up. But we're still talking hundreds and not thousand of kcal.
 
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Usually the people with "insane metabolism" just have habits that make it seem like they do. People used to claim I had that because they saw my huge evening meals. What they failed to see was my active lifestyle and my lack of appetite in the mornings and even during the day.

Sure there are individual variations, but I doubt we're talking bigger variations than a few hundred kcal/day (if even that) if two people are both sedated and in bed (and weigh exactly the same with the same lean mass and the same cardiovascular and musculat premises. Which is of course only a theoretical exercise because you won't find two people that are exactly the same). People do tend to have variations based on if they can sit still or if they're always fiddling and moving around. It adds up. But we're still talking hundreds and not thousand of kcal.

I completely agree with that.

I've noticed the same things with friends and family members - and the truth is that there's a monumental difference between us in terms of our daily rythms.

Some people are simply naturally active - and they literally don't sit down except to eat - and lie down to go to bed.

Personally, I'm as lazy as you can possibly imagine. The only reason I'm not a fat slob is due to having a rational and practical approach to diet and exercise. I do only what is absolutely necessary - with the least amount of effort - and no more :)

I absolutely hate doing things unless they're fun or interesting - and I consider nearly all kinds of physical exercise incredibly dull. Mostly because I'm what you would call a "cerebral" person - meaning all my fun is about what happens within my mind or my heart.

Sports and physical games can be fun - but they just can't compare to mental or emotional stimulation at the higher levels ;)

Heck, even sex is boring to me unless the mind is hard at work also ;)
 
So, I know I am coming at this from a completely different angle to most of you, since you all seen really knowledgeable about this.

I have signed for a gym membership starting next week Wednesday. I haven't done "real" exercise - other than some walking, jogging - for at least two years. I am 1m77 (5'8'' I think) weighing 75kg (~160lbs I think). I am neither fat, nor slim - with a bit of a belly.

My goal would be to simply get a bit of lean muscle by going 2-3 times a week to the gym. I am not planning to be a body builder.

I know I should eat less chocolate :), but in terms of exercise and food, what would you recommend to start off with.
Consider that I am unlikely to change my entire diet and would prefer focusing on the exercising.

A few years ago, I had done the 5x5 programme which helped me gain a lot of mass (I was pretty skinny (65kgs - 140lbs) and moved to around 70kgs with some muscle, but I would prefer not to gain too much weight now, mostly build up some muscle.
 
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I started going to the gym last September, but I'm not into body building (or other "sport" that require gym training).

The gym where I'm going is run by kinesiologists and they make programs to fix postural issues, injuries, flexibility and reduce muscle stress as well as preventing issues. This helped my shoulder and back a lot (desk jobs are bad).
 
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I trained in the gym for age 25 thru about 50 when the injuries would just pile up.Never under estimate youth when it comes to building muscle. I went 6 days a week following Arnold's book and went from a skinny 119 pounder to about 175 and very good from about waist up. I did work my legs very hard, 3 days a week and lots of protein shakes but my gout made it very hard to eat extra protein by the time I was about 48 with too many attacks and my body not able to process the extra protein. I loved my time in the gym and firmly believe it gave me an extra edge in growing my business because of all that energy body building provides.
I go to the gym now mostly for cardio and light weights. Last november, I did something to a bicep and its still giving me pain so I want to wait until it subsides a bit more.
 
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