Dragon Age 2 - Review @ GameBanshee

The pendulum will swing back, I suppose.

My only concern is how the suits will react ? I mean those who demanded that a successor of DRagon Age 1 should be made in such a short time to make more money in the wake of the first game's succes ...
 
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The pendulum will swing back, I suppose.

My only concern is how the suits will react ? I mean those who demanded that a successor of DRagon Age 1 should be made in such a short time to make more money in the wake of the first game's succes …

New EA orders to BioWare:

1) copy the 'magic blunderbuss' gun from Dungeon Siege 3
2) improve boob physix (TM)
3) use the mass effect cover/shooter engine with the new magic blunderbuss
4) introduce lyrium grenades

Do it BioWare. You must have innovation. You must have evolution. You must "knock down your fans' sandcastles". Do not listen to anyone that warns you against these four no-brainer steps to success. Anyone who does so is plainly just a PC elitist/4chaner/old fart afraid of change.
 
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I think a big part of this is that "old school" CRPGs were simply trying to recreate tabletop gaming as closely as possible. They were simulated sessions of dice rolling and chart-checking with a little story telling mixed in. But they had a Bible or ultimate rule book to always fall back on - the Dungeon Master's Guide, Players' Handbook, etc. Those were the rules. Period.

I see the merit to both sides really. I played tabletop D&D as a kid and my fond memories of that is what brought me back to CRPGs around age 30. But I also don't think that slavish adherence to a particular set of rules makes any sense for a video game either. Dragon Age is a rule set made up by Bioware. They went in half-assed in Origins, putting in stats and skills that often weren't well explained, and of course there was no Bible from Gary Gygax to refer to — they didn't have that license. So they made up a system that was KIND of like old D&D rules, but not really, and had some complexity, of which some was just puzzling or pointless.

I would welcome an old school D&D CRPG game and would buy it on release day regardless of price. And I've been playing older Bioware and Obsidian games for the first time recently. But in the meantime, I enjoy other games… games that actually exist in the real world, like Dragon Age 2*, etc.

*Please note that I find DA2 to be good but not great. I find much of the writing extremely good, some eye-rollingly bad, and the overall story really confusing. But it's a game that is fun to play, and better written than just about anything else I've ever encountered in a computer game.
 
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*Please note that I find DA2 to be good but not great... and better written than just about anything else I've ever encountered in a computer game.

Serious question - have you played Planescape Torment or Mask of the Betrayer? I appreciate this is all subjective, but what did you find so amazing about DA2 writing that makes it better than any other computer game?

Side quests - mostly inconsequential fedex ("thank you for returning x - I never knew I lost it"). Main quest - bizarre, I had no emotional investment. Environment - Kirkwall couldn't be more dead if it was Pripyat. Tone - juvenile. Framed narrative - got lost in translation, story not told in third person as advertised, just some fixed cutscenes to mark the end of an 'act'. Diverging paths - virtually non existent or illusory. Ending - unfinished ('cliffhanger' or rather, marketing lead into DA3). Companions - wooden (except Avaline, bits of Varric, and Merill's twist). Antagonists - Meredith and Orsino are just insane. Protagonist - some "champion" probably destined to save the world (to be continued in DA3).

Heck, KOTORs and Origins were ahead of this, IMO. But glad you enjoyed yourself. I'm just happy I got a free ME2 out of this... 2011 was meant to be a bumper year for RPGs - at the moment I'm just clinging on to hope for The Witcher 2.
 
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Side quests - mostly inconsequential fedex ("thank you for returning x - I never knew I lost it")
Those were THE WORST side quests and writing I have ever seen in any computer game, period.
 
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Have not played either Planescape Torment or Mask of the Betrayer. I couldn't finish NWN2 even, just too wonky with the camera and it ran pretty horribly on my machine. And I hated that female demon-rogue companion.

Some of your criticism of DA2 is valid, though I think you are exaggerating the degree. I do not think the companions are wooden, and in fact (other than Leliana) I like them more than the DA:O group. But DA:O had far worse companion interaction. You could go to camp and basically just interrogate every one of them and they'd spew their stories on and on. Origins also had Duncan as a central figure, a bland, generic warrior-sage who just showed up and started explaining stuff. There was just tons on exposition in Origins. I can understand somewhat because it's a new franchise. But everywhere you went stuff was "explained" to you.

I haven't even made it to "act 3" yet... I take forever to play these games. So who knows how I'll feel when I finish. Yeah, it's an interactive movie, sort of. But it's still fun to play. I do not judge every piece of entertainment on some internalized ideal I have for the medium. It's a different ride...
 
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Have not played either Planescape Torment or Mask of the Betrayer.
If you like good writing in your games, then you're doing yourself a disservice by passing on these two.

As for DA2, it is the first Bioware game that I've actually stopped playing very early-on because I was simply bored…. I've loved every single one of their games; I even loved Mass Effect 1 and 2 for what they were. But, DA2 to me feels very… artificial. I'm trying to put my finger on it, but the whole way the story plays out, the day/night construct, etc. just feels very wooden, stolid, and well… uninteresting. I guess it didn't help that I had been playing Dragon Knight Saga right before it and, although they are two completely different games, DKS just felt way more interesting and alive than DA2.

I hate to say this (as I've dabbled in game development myself in the past and know how cutthroat an industry it can be), but I hope DA2 doesn't sell well. I hope it forces Bioware to rethink how they are doing things and to add some of that "old-school" magic sauce back into their games. One can only hope…
 
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I think a big part of this is that "old school" CRPGs were simply trying to recreate tabletop gaming as closely as possible. They were simulated sessions of dice rolling and chart-checking with a little story telling mixed in. But they had a Bible or ultimate rule book to always fall back on - the Dungeon Master's Guide, Players' Handbook, etc. Those were the rules. Period.
I realize now that I should have known better, but this is actually what I was hoping for when I heard about "Bioware's new IP, Dragon Age" way back when. That they would take the time and sort things out, rule-wise, and then build upon that framework to create a setting that didn't seem as if it's sole purpose was to move the plotline-of-the-moment forward. I didn't expect that they would create a rule system anywhere near as complex as DnD — something that's undergone a few decades' worth of revisions and house rules), but I was hoping for something that would underscore the sense of an interactive world.

For me, that's what that Big Book of Rules and the Compendium of monsters do: they create the groundwork of the setting. Being the sort of player that's looking more for a compelling setting/world than a compelling character or even a compelling plotline (after all, I'm going to be (virtually) inhabiting this setting every single second I'm playing the game; how long does a plot-point take to expose by comparison?), I found Origins and especially Awakening to be disappointing in this regard. Too much still seemed to be based on the whim of the storyteller; when death, for instance, is handled in such an arbitrary fashion as it in in your more recent Bioware game, I never know how to react: whatever emotionality the event might have had is blunted or even removed (in the event that I simply don't believe or recognize that they character is, in fact, dead.)

I've known for years now that "Bioware doesn't do world building" — and to a very large extent, those monster guides and rule books define worlds — but was a bit of a revelation for me when I realized that, after playing Awakening and after hearing about the direction that they were continuing with DA2, what I liked the most about the Baldur's Gate series wasn't the plotline, but the world. The Forgotten Realms. The fact that, when I saw a high level warrior in front of me, I more or less knew what he was capable of and could adjust my tactics accordingly, simply because I knew what High Level Warriors could do in that framework. There was a consistency between my characters and the enemies I was facing that simply doesn't exist to nearly the same extent in Bioware games. EVeryone and their uncle, it seems, has something "special" these days… no reason for it in the lore, either, it's just for "game play purposes".

In that sense, at least, my first impression of Bioware as a company that could use the gaming medium (not just write stories and cram them into a game, or direct a movie and cram it into a game, but actually create a setting for players and stories alike) may have been misdirected. What I liked about Baldur's Gate the most may very well have been due mostly to the fact that they were working with a licensed product and weren't allowed to take all of the liberties they might have liked, and not down to Bioware at all.

Bummer of a revelation, that, but it does explain my current dissatisfaction with Bio's storytelling of late. Don't get me wrong, they can write some great characters and come up with some interesting scenarios, but for me, they just seem like disjointed set-pieces amongst the strings of filler combat that make up the balance of the game play. Gives their games a sort of duality that I don't like: Dialogue screens are for Story, everything else is Gameplay… and ne'er the twain shall meet.
 
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I didn't expect that they would create a rule system anywhere near as complex as DnD — something that's undergone a few decades' worth of revisions and house rules), but I was hoping for something that would underscore the sense of an interactive world.

As far as I know, there should indeed exist a pen & paper rules book for Dragon Age out there … But I have never seen a specimen of it, and in an online shop I sometimes order TDe material (they have other stuff, too) it is listed as "unavilable".

Edit : Amazon DE has it : http://www.amazon.de/Dragon-Age-Fan...ie=UTF8&s=books-intl-de&qid=1302359407&sr=1-5

Amazon Com entry : http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Age-Fa...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302359519&sr=8-1

If anyone here has ever read it : I'd be interested in how it is …
 
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Origins also had Duncan as a central figure, a bland, generic warrior-sage who just showed up and started explaining stuff.

1. He was only around during the tutorial basically.
2. Most of what he had to say was optional. He was certainly no Jehova's witness. He explained all the stuff about the blight and darkspawn, but only if you pried it out of him.
2. I definately wouldn't call him bland and generic warrior sage. He was more than happy to murder people in cold blood if need be.
 
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The pendulum will swing back, I suppose.

My only concern is how the suits will react ? I mean those who demanded that a successor of DRagon Age 1 should be made in such a short time to make more money in the wake of the first game's succes …

I hope it will be shut down, I don't think there's more irritating than Bioware fans. :biggrin:
 
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I like them more than the DA:O group. But DA:O had far worse companion interaction. You could go to camp and basically just interrogate every one of them and they'd spew their stories on and on.

The camp was a later addition to DA:O. They tried to go for the former permanent health mode, with health being an asset to manage all along a journey and not only during a battle. Most locations had a designed bedroom, heroes resting there would have regenerated their health more efficiently. Old style.
It was given up though.

So, you got camp instead of interactions in inns, castle bed room and all.

But the companions story were merged better in the narrative than in DA2. The best part was those showing up dynamically through events and not through talking up. Not enough but better than in DA2.

In DA2, Bioware kept doing what they started to do with Awakening: importing stuff from ME2.
The companions quest introduction worked in ME2 as the ship is a small confined environment with a psychology officer in charge of monitoring the crew. And they went through the developpment of the story.

But in DA2, it falls flat. The implementation is very linear: to each period, companions developp quests. It is routine, you start a new period and you know that you have to tour the companions to get news about them, their issues maturing at the same moment for each of them. It could have happened one year before, nope, it happens right now and all during the same year. And you receive the notification from nowhere. It is absolutely not integrated. It just happens. NO psychology officer to monitor the crew, to spot signs of stress, of pressure as in ME2. You know that you have to visit this companion as it has something on the mind.

Wont tell about the stories themselves but the introduction system felt more natural in DA:O.
 
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DAO companions could be better merged to the narration, I didn't quoted it that much but well ok. But it was a crap about merging companion living and gameplay. Living companions in camp and dead puppets elsewhere.

I hate so much how DAO suddenly gain all laurels and is considered as the perfect RPG, when in fact it has ton of crap design even if I can easily admit overall it is better than DA2.
 
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That is indeed one true achievement by DA2: DA2's quality has managed to give DA:eek:( a good game but nothing more) a legendary status. Quite a normal move as die hard fanboys are unable to admit that DA3 is a subpar game. To keep verisimilitude of credibility, they have to up DA:O.

Lets see if Bioware manages the same trick with DA3, making DA2 look good in comparison.
 
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everytime i play an rpg it is an awesome experience, y'know why, faggots?
because its all a matter of opinion

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
 
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That is indeed one true achievement by DA2: DA2's quality has managed to give DA:eek:( a good game but nothing more) a legendary status. Quite a normal move as die hard fanboys are unable to admit that DA3 is a subpar game. To keep verisimilitude of credibility, they have to up DA:O.

Lets see if Bioware manages the same trick with DA3, making DA2 look good in comparison.

Really you have to love there marketing team. Nobody else can generate hate from the info they release. It does the job for them.
 
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Yes, the marketing is indeed impressive.

But - a good hand-crafted item usually speaks for itself - through its sheer quality. (I'm rather thinking of carpentry as I write this.)

Normaly, it just wouldn't need marketing. It just stands there where it stands and impresses people.

Marketing is usually there to give an item the polish it wouldn't have by standing for itself, so to say.

So ... the better the markting ...
Does it mean there's something that needs to be polished by it ?
 
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I'm playing ME2 and even if something keep me get a big fun (don't know why or what), but I'm totally impressed by the game. It's so clear that DA team got jealous of ME2 team and wanted borrow many things. Alas DA team seem not collect the same amount of talent in many area, from writing to graphics. Even levels/dungeons design seem quite better done in ME2, I used "seem" on purpose, I don't think they are intrinsically better, but they produce better the illusion.

DA2 marketing? Where? The few interviews of the project leader? Well seriously DA2 seems more like an abandoned product from this point of view.
 
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Some good levels in ME2 (like the quarian technician level), good firing positions, good settings, good introduction...
Pity you can not replay them after the game if you dont have a specific save for them.
 
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Some good levels in ME2 (like the quarian technician level), good firing positions, good settings, good introduction…
Pity you can not replay them after the game if you dont have a specific save for them.

Yeah, perhaps something wrong with me, but I found ME1 fights boring and irritating, and got a huge surprise to find those of ME2 overall fun. Well I hate the way of controlling companions but with very minimal control of them, I found fights fun and enjoyed find some tactical values. Really the hugest surprised I didn't expected at all, I wish FNV had as good fights design, but it's very very far from what I already played of it.
 
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