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November 13th, 2020, 16:21
I think people over-inflate the failures. Its a bias syndrome. Negative emotions are remembered, and stand out, far more then positive or neutral ones. So the bad rolls take up more of the brains spotlight then the good ones.

As long as it is a truly random generator for the rolls I disagree with the general assessment as I think there is heavy user bias to remember the negative rolls more. That and the fact that many users are used to the binary skill check. Either you have the skill level or you don't. So used to passing a lot more and hence playing a game where its more random they put more emphasis on the negative.

I have 99 hours in. I save-scummed a number of times on certain rolls. Each play through I scummed less though as I was less worried about the after effects having already experienced them.

So for me, my own experience with almost 100 hours of playing and paying attention to the rolls, is that I got plenty of 20 rolls mixed in with critical misses/failures, and everything in between.

Sometimes I had a string of "bad" luck and sometimes a string of "good" luck. And, once again, a string of bad luck will stand out far, far more then good luck. If you are passing a bunch you just keep going. Bad ones you may reload, you may bitch more, you may worry more. So the negative will stand out in memory more then good ones, where you just keep going.

I was pretty hyper-sensitive to the rolls on my second and third play through, after feeling like the first one as too heavy on the bad rolls. I realized it was the negative bias effect.

Also things do increase your chances - skills, abilities, spells.

You might get a +4 or +7 to a roll. That increases your odds of passing (same for negative). Meaning if you need a 10 or higher to pass, then add 7 and need a 3 or higher to pass - the odds are more in your favor of passing needing a 3 versus a 10. As there are more results that pass then before.
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November 13th, 2020, 16:35
Well right back at ya. As we all have biases.

Me I hate the damn dice and want them removed. I'll play a table-top board game if I want to play with dice. Since it's a CRPG it should be skill based not RNG dice based.

So yes I'm very anti-Dice biased and proud to admit it.

Try saying that on Steam you get trolled hard by the Larian & D&D fanboys.
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November 13th, 2020, 16:46
One more thing I want to say is this is not the Baldur's Gate III game I envisioned being made so that's probably another bias on my part. Doubt I will ever be appeased either.

As I prefer my D&D CRPG games similar to what Obsidian did with NWN2. Anyway tis a moot point as easier modes are being added, or I will use just use a PC cheat trainer.
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November 13th, 2020, 17:22
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
The question for me is does a dice roll negate a skill level, or merely modify it? If I have a skill of 7 and roll poorly does than mean I fail, or does it simply lower my skill level by a point or two in that instance. I could live with that. The reverse should then also be true; if I have a skill level of 4 and roll well then it should increase my skill level for that instance so I might actually pass the skill check. Thoughts?
The thing you're attempting has a DC based on how difficult that thing is to do in general. Bluffing a toddler to believe in Santa Claus mght have a DC of 1. Bluffing Sherlock Holmes a DC of 20.

You have your Bluff skill. Say 7. You roll the D20 and add the 7 and try to exceed that DC. So for that toddler, any roll will suffice except for a 1, which is almost always an automatic failure. For Sherlock you would need to roll a 13 or better (13 +7 = 20).

That's how rolls work.
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November 13th, 2020, 17:43
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
The question for me is does a dice roll negate a skill level, or merely modify it? If I have a skill of 7 and roll poorly does than mean I fail, or does it simply lower my skill level by a point or two in that instance. I could live with that. The reverse should then also be true; if I have a skill level of 4 and roll well then it should increase my skill level for that instance so I might actually pass the skill check. Thoughts?
The way it works is that a check has a certain value assigned to it. For example a check on persuasion may be 10.

If your skill is 0 then you need to roll a 10 or more to succeed.

If your skill is 8 then you only need to roll a 2 or more to succeed.

However you don't know the requirements until after you press your reply in dialogue.



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November 13th, 2020, 20:14
Also, many of the checks in 5E are quite low e.g. standard concentration check to avoid losing spell your concentrating on is *10*….and you can get abilities like bless that allow you (well, in this case someone else concentrating on the spell to help you to add to die rolls, situations that give advantage (which is huge in 5E) etc. I find it quite refreshing from 3.5/PF - and I would still save scum if I really want a specific result. I PF:K I would do that with chests - official PF rules allow you to take 20, which they didn't implement, so if 20+trickery bonus would make the check I'd reload until I did. Whatever. Play like you want really. No one will be happy all the time, whatever they do.
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November 13th, 2020, 21:49
@Couchpotato, do you also hate the hit dice? I.e. every attack should hit?

No computer-based random number generator is actually random. They are all so complex algorithms that they can be thought random given that you do not know the "seed" (i.e. the alternative of the algorithm). Unless you make a pretty basic programming mistake, the RNG in games should be correct. I.e. if your hit chance is 70% and save-scum the situation 100 times, you should fail 30 times +- the standard error which is related to the range I think.

In BG3 it felt to me that the hit probabilities were off but as @wolfgrimdark says, there is also the negative bias involved.
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November 14th, 2020, 00:41
I don't want any type of Dice in my CRPGs. Do what 100's of other RPGS do by putting the numbers to work in-engine where the player doesn't need to see them.
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November 14th, 2020, 00:43
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
I don't want any type of Dice in my CRPGs. Do what 100's of other RPGS do by putting the numbers to work in-engine where the player doesn't need to see them.>
Most rpgs have dice rolls. They just show them as percentages instead.
18/20 is 90% hit chance.

If they don't have dice rolls of hit chance they usually do on damage.



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November 14th, 2020, 00:51
Like I said in-engine and not really necessary to display. I'll take something like Fallout NV where it's greyed out if you don't meet the skill-check. Skill based over Dice rolls.

Not immersion breaking dice roll screens almost as bad as OS Rock paper scissors.
The rock-paper-scissors mini-game is used to convince NPC's to do various things that they ordinarily wouldn't do, helping the player in some way. It can advance quests, give information, give items, avoid fights, etc.
Hated that as well the dice look like another take on that concept.

Edit: What it comes down to is it seems I don't like Larian's RPG formula for various reasons. I never finished Original Sin 1 or 2 yet years after there release either.

My opinion is not popular but hey I can't change my personal tastes/preferences.
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November 14th, 2020, 01:11
It's a game based on dnd 5e. Whether or not you want "dice" / RNG is irrelevant.
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November 14th, 2020, 01:34
Ah yes here we go again with the usual reply to opinions like mine.

Let me check are we on the Steam forums? Nope…

I'll counter and say did Baldur's Gate 1&2 have obvious Dice rolls? No they found a way to implement them in-engine with a small text box if you wanted to read the results.

I already said what my problem boils down to I hate every modern Larian RPG. I've realized there not for me, and BG III just builds on what I hate even more.

I should go post this on /unpopular opinion on reddit.

Anyway I might stop posting news in this thread. So problem solved moving on.
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November 14th, 2020, 09:42
I think I understand what you mean by "I hate dice": you don't want to see the odds but you are not against them being in the background.

I was slightly confused at first because pretty much every RPG uses "dice"/randomness in their core systems - that is one of the definitions of an RPG. In other words, you could say you hate RPGs. Anyway, it would not be a huge task for the devs or modders to hide the information about odds and just let the RNG run in the background…

One reason why I like turn-based RPG combat over real-time is exactly that they show my hit chance and make me think how to approach the battle, but tastes differ…

Perhaps you should hate less and love more. Life would be easier that way I don't think anyone here got insulted by your posts, though, so keep on doing what you do. I do appreciate the news updates.
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November 14th, 2020, 12:32
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Like I said in-engine and not really necessary to display. I'll take something like Fallout NV where it's greyed out if you don't meet the skill-check. Skill based over Dice rolls.

Not immersion breaking dice roll screens almost as bad as OS Rock paper scissors.
Hated that as well the dice look like another take on that concept.

Edit: What it comes down to is it seems I don't like Larian's RPG formula for various reasons. I never finished Original Sin 1 or 2 yet years after there release either.

My opinion is not popular but hey I can't change my personal tastes/preferences.
So basically you don't want to see it?

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November 15th, 2020, 18:16
Some Baldur's Gate 3 Players Are Frustrated With Its D&D Mechanics -Screenrant
In an interview with IGN, Swen Vincke, a founder of Larian Studios, revealed that not all players are embracing the 5E rules. This is in part because the dice rules apply not just to combat but also to aspects like dialogue and stealth. A player might try to persuade an NPC to make a certain decision, but if the roll of the D20 (plus any relevant stat bonuses) doesn't go in their favor, the NPC could refuse. The result has been a high level of save-scumming in certain key Baldur's Gate 3 encounters as players, dissatisfied with failing a check, reload to get a better outcome. Vincke said that the decision to start Baldur's Gate 3 almost completely ruled by Random Number Generation (RNG) was a purposeful one, as Larian Studios wanted to see how players reacted to that version of the game. As the data starts pouring in about where players are reloading or as players vent their frustrations in forums, Larian can begin tweaking the game to provide a more enjoyable experience.
Wait didn't someone above mention RNG had nothing to do with the Dice?
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November 15th, 2020, 18:50
"Tweaking" sounds like "bowing to pressure from players who refuse to fail in games", which would suck. Hopefully Larian provides an optioin for those who would prefer to retain the element of chance. Or optionally hide the dice rolls.
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November 15th, 2020, 22:45
I like having options available in a SP game so that people can play and enjoy the game as they prefer!!
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November 15th, 2020, 23:04
I'd hate to be a DM with players who rage about the "RNG".



Loaded Dice - for children distressed by the nature of probability.
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November 16th, 2020, 00:07
Players tend to look at "90%" and see 100%. You won't see them complaining about the game being broken when they are successful with a 10% chance, though.
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November 19th, 2020, 02:32
Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Review (After 100+ Hours)

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I finally decided to do a review of Baldur's Gate 3 's early access after 100 plus hours of playtime and 3 plus playthroughs. In this video I will mainly talk about the foundation of the game and how I feel it will ultimately be when the official game is released. I will go over mechanics, gameplay, visuals, combat, story, and replayability. More BG3 videos on the way, subscribe.
Baldur's Gate 3 Beginner's Guide - Combat Dice Rolls

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This video will be a beginner's guide to dice rolls in combat. I will go over attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. More BG3 videos on the way, subscribe.
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