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Default Cyberpunk 2077 - Review @ Worth A Buy

December 13th, 2020, 22:08
Worth A Buy checked out Cyberpunk 2077:

Cyberpunk 2077 Review - A gamers perspective, not a corporate one.

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December 14th, 2020, 08:31
Damn… that was a harsh review
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December 14th, 2020, 08:41
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
Damnā€¦ that was a harsh review
Not wrong though…Bugs do seem to annoy quite many people and a release is a release. Should be judged accordingly. While I enjoy the game and could perhaps be classified as a CDPR fanboy by mean internet trolls, I hope that the game does not get many game-of-the-year awards. That would just be unfair for devs that publish their games less buggy (Ubisoft this time). CPRD should have pushed the release by another half a year or published it first on PC & Stadia where it seems to work kind of OK.

PS. I understand the socioeconomic pressure the devs had. They screwed up by being too optimistic about the time it takes to develop a game of this complexity. The bosses at CDPR should learn from this. Because of the massive hype, it did not turn into a disaster, but it could have.
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December 14th, 2020, 08:47
Originally Posted by largh View Post
I hope that the game does not get many game-of-the-year awards. That would just be unfair for devs that publish their games less buggy.
No it wouldn't. Not unless their games are actually better.
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December 14th, 2020, 08:54
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
No it wouldn't. Not unless their games are actually better.
How do you define "better"? Intended better or experienced better? On which platform?

Anyway, someone (Couch perhaps) said that games released in December often do not make it to GOTY assessments of that year. Not sure if that is true. Next year CP2077 will be closer to the intended level and would likely beat most games released that year.
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December 14th, 2020, 09:05
Originally Posted by largh View Post
How do you define "better"? Intended better or experienced better? On which platform?

Anyway, someone (Couch perhaps) said that games released in December often do not make it to GOTY assessments of that year. Not sure if that is true. Next year CP2077 will be closer to the intended level and would likely beat most games released that year.
I don't think it's that complicated. If someone makes a better game, it'll win.

The bugs are being blown out of proportion as is usually the case with high-profile releases. I can't recall many large open-world games being released without a shitload of people talking about bugs until the first few patches.

I'm referring to the PC version. It might be different with the console versions especially the last generation consoles which don't seem well suited to run the game.
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December 14th, 2020, 09:17
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
It might be different with the console versions especially the last generation consoles which don't seem well suited to run the game.
Last generation consoles are what the majority of people own. The game was sold and released for those. Just saying. I do not own one either so can't judge but people seem pretty disappointed. This seems not the typical "most buggy game I ever played" stuff you'll hear with every AAA release. I think the game will be used as an example of a release failure in the future like Kingdom Come and Pathfinder 1 which both turned into great games over time. The scale is just bigger here as more morons (= the masses) are involved.
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December 14th, 2020, 09:26
As much as I love The Witcher series and as much as I like CDPR and respect most of their practices this would probably not be recommended by me, at least for right now.

The game is very good. It looks great, the atmosphere is fantastic, the quests are as usual really good and the writing and voice acting are just fantastic. It just was not ready for release.

There are small bugs here and there that you see all the time. Might be a pedestrian walking through a post or a bench, cars stopping and blocking each other on the street, floor clipping through the bottom of the car, animation irregularities and so on.

Occasionally there are some game breaking ones. In my playthrough, after I stole a vehicle to get into somewhere unnoticed, I became pretty much invisible and could not attack anyone, even hostiles anymore.

Also there are some weird design decisions. If you commit a crime and drive away they will stop chasing you and it will be forgotten quite easily. I was expecting some form of crime meter to track your actions but it is not there.

I am positive that in a few months the game will be patched heavily and for sure most of these things will be fixed but it can be rough currently.
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December 14th, 2020, 09:36
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Last generation consoles are what the majority of people own. The game was sold and released for those. Just saying. I do not own one either so can't judge but people seem pretty disappointed. This seems not the typical "most buggy game I ever played" stuff you'll hear with every AAA release. I think the game will be used as an example of a release failure in the future like Kingdom Come and Pathfinder 1 which both turned into great games over time. The scale is just bigger here as more morons (= the masses) are involved.
I don't agree. I think it'll be remembered as being mediocre on the older consoles, but I don't think that's going to have a huge impact on the overall opinion of the game in the future.

What's going to determine that more so is CDPR's post-release support and the DLCs. If the game continues to improve, and I think it will, so will the overall opinion of it.
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December 14th, 2020, 10:12
Well Witcher III was a bug fest on release and didn't run to good in the PS4 on launch day either. Yet two years later and a lot of patches, DLC and expansions it was a hit.

I've played worse open world games on release like Bethesda games. If the games didn't include a cheat command and codes I never would have finished them.

Bottom-line they should have cancelled all older generation releases and refunded the buyers. As somewhere down the line they knew the game wouldn't run well on them.
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December 14th, 2020, 10:34
I know it's very frustrating, but I wouldn't be so eager to judge whether a company deserves an award or not, simply because there are bugs on release.

Many great games had a difficult start, yet we are glad we could play them. The developers had a clear message regarding the bugs and it cost them already: they have to fix them asap after what was probably a bad crunch period. It's good they also have the positive message, and enough encouragement to keep creating good content and pushing the envelope.

I don't say we should turn a blind eye to recurrent bugged releases, just that given the circumstances we may consider their merit on two levels, the final result and how well/bad it went.

Maybe I'm saying that because I haven't played it yet though
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December 14th, 2020, 10:45
I didn't say turn a blind eye but take Bethesda they get a free pass on every one of their open world messes. I still have bugs that weren't fixed except by modders.

Also most games release today as a mess. It take months of patches to fix them. I don't know when this became the new standard. Yet it's the reality of game development.
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December 14th, 2020, 11:04
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Also most games release today as a mess. It take months of patches to fix them. I don't know when this became the new standard. Yet it's the reality of game development.
The point by the reviewer in the video was that as long as we keep on brushing the bugged releases off by saying "they'll fix them eventually", the trend in the industry will continue. I am personally not influenced by review scores, but it appears that many are, including the industry. Therefore punishing the review score because of bugs as done above and by PC Gamer is not wrong. I appreciate it. Perhaps they should begin to do double reviews. One at launch and one for the "Definitive Edition". From the 6 hours I have played, I can say that CP2077 definitely deserves a higher score than 60-70s/100. Yet, if the bugs spoil the experience, why not include that into the score? Sure, some people will play in a year and get a different experience. That's not an excuse. It keeps on feeding the bugged releases.
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December 14th, 2020, 11:16
I wouldnt personally go as far as saying that MOST games are released in really poor state these days. And I think that it wasnt any better in past. Its just our brains remembering more the good and less the bad I would say.

If I try harder to remember I recall waiting for patches to be released on CD-s attached to magazines. And many developers didnt provide any post-release support, if there werent some really fundamental, game-breaking bugs.

So I dont think we are really in worse situation then good old days, at least concerning the videogame bugs. Just my opinion of course.

As for CP2077, I played the game for about 2 hours, didnt have time for more yet.
I didnt see anything worse then what I saw 100 times before. Some clipping textures and one stuck questline which required loading of last checkpoint. But Im sure there are worse things that can go wrong in that code, It was just short gameplay.
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December 14th, 2020, 11:30
Nein I don't agree as most PC RPG games I played nowadays receive many patches. This includes games by Inexile, Obsidian, Larian an so on name the developer.

Some of those games even spent 1-2 years in Early Access.

Worst offenders so far are the new Spellforce games and Pathfinder Kingmaker. Anyway CDPR had eight years to develop this game from it's inception. So yeah no excuses.

Yeah I know they had more like five/six years since the first two were mostly spent on Witcher III. Still my points stand games are a mess nowadays and that's a fact.

Rant time activated.
  • We all know that games are buggy as heck at launch.
  • We all know we should wait one month for the proper updates.
  • We all know this. Yet, we keep buying games at launch.
  • We keep playing them in this buggy, crappy state.
  • Why the heck do we keep doing this to ourselves?
  • Are we masochists?
  • Are we insane??
Seriously complaining about bugs in new releases is now a national pastime.
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Last edited by Couchpotato; December 14th, 2020 at 13:05.
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December 14th, 2020, 11:42
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Seriously complaining about bugs in new releases is now a national pastime.
Yet, you don't agree that punishing a game for bugs at release in the review score is a good practice?
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December 14th, 2020, 11:46
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
I didn't say turn a blind eye but take Bethesda they get a free pass on every one of their open world messes. I still have bugs that weren't fixed except by modders.
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Yet, if the bugs spoil the experience, why not include that into the score? Sure, some people will play in a year and get a different experience. That's not an excuse. It keeps on feeding the bugged releases.
I wonder what a good solution would be. I like reviews that separate the scores by category, and if one of them is reliability at launch / support, maybe it's fair enough? Same for award, they target specific features, regardless of the state of the game at launch (I think). There could be a "bad launch award"
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
I wouldnt personally go as far as saying that MOST games are released in really poor state these days. And I think that it wasnt any better in past. Its just our brains remembering more the good and less the bad I would say.
Good point. I'm not saying poor state, mind, but requiring 0/1-day patches, or even some hotfixes the following days. And I agree with you, it was like that before. Sometimes it's just because the game couldn't be tested on all varieties of hardware that exist out there. Or sometimes because they didn't have the time to test all paths and combinations of gameplay, it must be daunting. That's why a unique score that is low because of those problems seems harsh to me.

If the game is completely broken because it's far from finished on release day, that's something else of course.

EDIT: @Couchpotato exactly, why do we keep buying them on release, or even before? But that's what happens at the end of the day, anyway…
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December 14th, 2020, 11:50
Eh, not only Im able to spend money for buggy game, im even able to spend money on game I know I dont have time to play :-(

I suppose videogames are not part of the consumer basket, which would be subject to rational buying motives.
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December 14th, 2020, 11:56
I think reviewers should review games twice: a merciless take on bugs at release (of course reviewing the entire experience) together with another one once the bugs have been fixed. Also, the hurry to get reviews out in time influences the quality of reviews.

As a solution for the current bug-shit-releases: how about a beta-release some months ahead of the real release? People who like to access the content first could wade through bugs while others could wait until they are fixed. The company would get sales income and could stretch the real release.

I bet had CDPR given the opportunity for players to access the game beforehand and report in bugs, people would have volunteered. Controlling access is easy with cloud-based streaming services. Now they wanted to keep the hype-meter red all the way until the launch day. That kinda turned against them as they need to begin with refunds and hassle.
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December 14th, 2020, 12:02
If it's done in a logical and fair way, I don't have a problem with review scores taking bugs into account.

Unfortunately though, at least with user-reviews, we get a lot of idiots who review-bomb games with unreasonable scores because they can't control their emotions or because they feel like they're getting back at a developer they don't like.
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