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Default Baldur's Gate 3 - Top Changes we want @ Fextralife

January 6th, 2021, 09:24
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
What?… fuck no. Save the procedurally generated stuff for the roguelikes.
My thoughts exactly
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January 6th, 2021, 09:26
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
One word mod tools. Even Larian looks forward to seeing what modders do.
“I can imagine that we will never manage to find the balance that will please everyone,” says Vincke. But, there is a (sort of) solution: “The game will be moddable eventually, so people will be able to make their mods. I expect multiple flavors of Baldur’s Gate 3 to come out of that. Over time there will be probably a flavor that will appeal hopefully to everybody.”
Why do I understand "the game will be fixable by mods"? So today's trends.
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January 6th, 2021, 09:26
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I don't agree with all of your points, but a RTwP option would be awesome. Unfortunately, I also think it's the least likely to happen. (Along with having more than 4 characters).
That's all cool, I don't mind disagreement. I think you're probably right on the likelihood of such a mechanic being adapted, but you never know with Larian. I think it's an exciting idea and would solve some of the speed complaints if it were possiible.

As for the party of 6 - I suspect modders will help out there, but we'll have to see.
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January 6th, 2021, 09:28
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
I also liked the idea of randomly generated dungeons Well, I suppose all sorts of crazy ideas float around.
Urgh! No thanks. I think you need to play the original games.
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January 6th, 2021, 09:30
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Why do I understand "the game will be fixable by mods"? So today's trends.
100% true.

No one would have a Pathfinder TB mode if it wasn't for modders as well. Though this time I hope we get more campaigns as the mods for the OS games was lacking.

BG III could be the next NWN.
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January 6th, 2021, 09:40
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
As for the party of 6 - I suspect modders will help out there, but we'll have to see.
I've no doubt that one will happen. Someone did it for D:OS 2.

Thing is, I don't see the point if they're not also rebalancing the entire game, and I'm not sure if that's doable through modding. Otherwise, it'll only make most of the combat encounters trivial.
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January 6th, 2021, 09:49
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Otherwise, it'll only make most of the combat encounters trivial.
Maybe. As artificial as a solution as it might be, perhaps increasing the difficulty might help in this regard. I'm hoping there are enough old school fans complaining to Larian on party size though for them to do something about it. I've already seen screenshots of party mods for EA on the official forums too.
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January 6th, 2021, 09:58
IMO, the Underdark was a great dungeon. One of the more memorable ones in any game I have played especially because of the low-level party and a single mistake leading to death.

No-one has commented about the light setting. The starting area is far too sunny given the setting and reminds me of D:OS2. If they don't want to make day/night cycles, they should make an eternal night in the crash site.
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January 6th, 2021, 10:00
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
Urgh! No thanks. I think you need to play the original games.
Don't worry, just in case it wasn't clear, I was being ironic about it
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January 6th, 2021, 10:07
Regarding party size, I was also in favour of 5-6, but I'm not sure they could still change that even if they wanted to. The interface and the game balance are already made for 4, though the difficulty level could allow for more. But there is also the companion interactions, they're bickering enough as it is, and finding 5 companions that are compatible could be tricky.
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January 6th, 2021, 11:21
Originally Posted by largh View Post
IMO, the Underdark was a great dungeon. One of the more memorable ones in any game I have played especially because of the low-level party and a single mistake leading to death.
I think you missed the point. I'm not suggesting the Underdark is not a great dungeon - on the contrary, it's an AD&D staple and has appeared in quite a few games. It's notably fantastic in BG2, the NWN expansion (HoU) and is much more apt for those higher levels. However, the Underdark encountered at such a low level as in BG3 should arguably be almost instant death; no mistakes made or otherwise. It doesn't quite work for me.

Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Don't worry, just in case it wasn't clear, I was being ironic about it
Ahh ok, no worries. You have a very cheerful posting style generally, so I missed the irony. I thought the tongue was just for making an unpopular suggestion.
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January 6th, 2021, 11:32
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
I think you missed the point. I'm not suggesting the Underdark is not a great dungeon - on the contrary, it's an AD&D staple and has appeared in quite a few games. It's notably fantastic in BG2, the NWN expansion (HoU) and is much more apt for those higher levels. However, the Underdark encountered at such a low level as in BG3 should arguably be almost instant death; no mistakes made or otherwise. It doesn't quite work for me.
The game started in Hell which is even higher level territory than Underdark…I don't see a problem placing low-level characters in high-level locations. Just that these locations need to feel deadly. That was something I commented on the Larian forums months ago. I hope they'll make both locations feel more dangerous.

Who knows, maybe large parts of the game continue in the Underdark.
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January 6th, 2021, 12:46
The biggest thing for me are the unbalanced DOS-inspired rules that Larian have shoehorned into the game - 5E has a carefully balance design philosophy (action economy, bounded accuracy etc), which does actually work in a CRPG, as Solasta shows (less prettily of course). Larian are obsessed with blowing shit up - too many powder barrels (and now - 'firewine' everywhere, and all easily set off (and you can carry them about, they weigh little and most game chars don't seem to care). Seeing this once in a while is fine, but it seems their encounters are balanced around using these gimmicks - as well as giving even the lowest level goblin fire arrows, grenades etc. I redid some fights with high ground advantage (overpowered and not 5E), firebolt etc BOOM BOOM BOOM!! All enemies dead. Barely a scratch. The TB combat toggle can also be abused, you can turn it on, walk behind almost any enemy, if you are out of sight initially, (they get no passive perception or anything to react) - and then 'backstab' them (advantage on attack roll for *any* class - also not in 5E) or push them to their death, if you are strong enough - and then often the enemy is surprised ('hey, how did you slow down time?!'), so you get another attack off. I understand that some people enjoy this stuff, but if it's billed as 5E, and the rules - well established play-tested and balanced - can be made to work - and they can - please use them. If anything, you can construct more balanced less exploitable encounters - surely that's good? The game becomes a lot easier if you don't try and play like a 5E game, which just seems wrong. I know it's EA, but I have little faith that they will listen to the so-called 'purists' and implement the rules correctly where they can. I still had fun, but my frustration grew as I played for longer and I noticed more reliance on exploits (yeah, some of that is a consequence of taking an under-levelled party into the underdark) - but in the final game you will be the appropriate level, and those exploits (all broken 5E mechanics) should be removed. I doubt it though. I'll have some crackers with my wheel of cheese please (which you can eat in combat - I only found that out recently)
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January 6th, 2021, 12:58
Originally Posted by booboo View Post
The biggest thing for me are the unbalanced DOS-inspired rules that Larian have shoehorned into the game - 5E has a carefully balance design philosophy
That's my primary concern too, and I haven't seen any comment from Larian on that , or where they stand vs D&D 5E mechanics so I'm afraid they intend to keep it that way

Some parts are literally covered in flamable AoE. That's something which was criticized in D:OS1, so they adapted it for D:OS2 by … keeping it but making those AoE almost ineffective. Now they brought that in another ruleset which was not really designed for it IMO. It's also ugly to see when used abusively.
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January 6th, 2021, 13:08
I think that the 6 minute speedrun Video has shown us already how easily you can get past encounters with cheesing yourself through via jumping and pushing mechanics.
They said they would look into it to avoid the same level of cheesing in the future, i just hope that they will rework the secondary movement mechanics alltogether.
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January 6th, 2021, 13:41
Yeah, my concern is less with speed runners (people always find ways to exploit loopholes) but that so much other stuff is broke because they broken the 'action economy'. Movement is one part of it, but things like misty step (which are legit) already allow you to get places you probably shouldn't be… I don't mind that - it's more that if you get there, and engage an enemy that should be death, you somehow survive purely because of broken mechanics. Too may things are bonus actions or have no consequences. And 'dippable' weapons are super cheesy - usually any kind of elemental damage on a weapon is costly - spell or the weapon has innate magic (and costs a fortune). Making that free is just silly.

I think part of the issue is they want big fights that seem overly threatening - and to make sure you can have your spectacle and survive, they have to pepper the world with exploding whatever's and allow you ample opportunities to sneak about and ambush/shove/leap away etc I agree that jumping to disengage is really wrong - disengage should be all you can do, unless you are a rogue with cunning action (bonus action) or …a goblin ('nimble escape')!
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January 7th, 2021, 14:53
Let me first say that this is just my opinion. There is a lot of stuff I agree with in this thread. First being, the 6 character party. There are a lot of great combinations of classes but you are almost forced to take a Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Mage. The in-between characters are not explored. Even Larian said that when you play early access try something you wouldnt normally play. Likely because they realize without more than 4 slots there are some classes that just won't be played. Six character opens up options outside of the critical 4 classes with an additional 2 support characters. Since there is another class coming with release, it will make choosing your character class and the the other three "companions" a little more difficult. Games with six characters have been successful in the past. I would like to see it back. If we cannot have six characters, then allow us to tweak the classes of the companions, or allow us to modify the classes of the existing characters so that only their personalities remain.

Next, I agree with the ability to see dice roll mechanic play out within combat. As Fextralife stated, it is something that Solasta does very well. It definitely adds to the tabletop experience.

Last, I cannot wait to see what talented modders will do to this game. As was mentioned earlier modders changed POE II to Turn based and it made it a better game in my opinion. Of course there's always the porn cut scenes that are bound to come out as well to look forward to…. LOL.

Lue.
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January 7th, 2021, 16:43
I'd like a BG 3 that doesn't look close to a Divinity Original Sin series cut and paste job in terms of the graphics. Oops, too late for that. I'd rather play Divinity Original Sin with its awesome combat system instead, tbh. To me, BG 3 also looks way too over the top and cheesy in terms of the "dark" world and story line. (you have tadpoles/parasites in your head and mind flayers as super villian, how is that interesting?? not to me) (I have not played it, it lost my interest a while ago)
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January 7th, 2021, 16:55
I never understood why people felt they always had to have X classes in the party. Most games I play were balanced enough, with alternative ways of doing things, I didn't need to do that. I played EA BG3 three times to the end. The third time was the most comprehensive where I did all the content, secret content, etc. I certainly never worried about having the holy trinity. I also played at the difficulty everyone else was playing at. I often didn't have a cleric along. Other times no tank. I did fine.

In other games, say Pathfinder, if I wanted companions over classes and things got hard I lowered the difficulty. I think people don't think outside of the box enough or simply are stuck in a rut thinking they always have to have XYZ in the party.

Regardless I never once felt restricted by having only 4 for the party nor felt I had to remove character X because I needed class Y.

I also sooooo much more prefer BG3 over DDOS series. Like light years better. BG3 is better in style, combat, atmosphere, and companions. Story is about on par so far for me.
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January 7th, 2021, 17:06
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
I'd like a BG 3 that doesn't look close to a Divinity Original Sin series cut and paste job in terms of the graphics. Oops, too late for that. I'd rather play Divinity Original Sin with its awesome combat system instead, tbh. To me, BG 3 also looks way too over the top and cheesy in terms of the "dark" world and story line. (you have tadpoles/parasites in your head and mind flayers as super villian, how is that interesting?? not to me) (I have not played it, it lost my interest a while ago)
What do you mean "in terms of graphics"? That's one of the areas they normally excel in, what part don't you like which is "copy pasted"? The only feature I'm not fond of is the way those characters dance when idle during combat, which is a bit ridiculous, but it's not a big issue, otherwise I find it gorgeous.

As for the story line, the plot directly involves the player with an immediate problem to solve: removing the tadpole. Then along the way, other considerations are discovered and the plot gets deeper. It's quite classical and very effective, I'd rather see that than a remote, high-level issue which flies over the head of the player because it's too abstract.

Don't forget that they only reveal a small part of the story in the EA, it will grow. It was exactly the same in D:OS2, your first concern was saving your life on the ship, then escaping Fort Joy, hardly a "save-the-world"-class story. It comes along the way.
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