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Default Cyberpunk 2077 - CD Projekt apologizes

January 14th, 2021, 10:19
Originally Posted by Giovanni1983 View Post
I agree with what most people have said in here. Bugs aside as I expect they will be sorted, it's a good game but I expected a lot more, considering they made Witcher 3 and it's not just false expectations. They are missing things that games had 10+ years ago
I definitely expected more in terms of gameplay and itemization. The loot system, which was terrible in TW3, is just as bad here. Thankfully they haven't lost their touch in regards to writing and quest design.

It basically has the same strengths and weaknesses TW3 had which tells me they're either stubborn or just slow learners.
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January 14th, 2021, 10:32
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I definitely expected more in terms of gameplay and itemization. The loot system, which was terrible in TW3, is just as bad here. Thankfully they haven't lost their touch in regards to writing and quest design.

It basically has the same strengths and weaknesses TW3 had which tells me they're either stubborn or just slow learners.
A gaming magazine in Finland wrote in their review something like "Like Witcher 3, also Cyberpunk 2077 proves that CD Projekt can make outstanding stories, characters, and worlds, but not so excellent games". I started thinking about this and have to agree. Both TW3 and CP2077 have excellent characters and worlds but from the game mechanic side, they are not great. I am not after the game itself in games but the immersion, stories, and interactivity they provide. Consequently, CDPR games work for me. The immersion could be improved a lot by ditching that stupid loot system and some of the stupidly simple "RPG elements" connected to the character and item levels. Just as examples, a bunny hat has higher armor than a helmet or five headshots is not enough to kill a high-level enemy without any protection (or other lore reason why they don't get hurt).
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January 14th, 2021, 10:43
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Consequently, CDPR games work for me. The immersion could be improved a lot by ditching that stupid loot system and some of the stupidly simple "RPG elements" connected to the character and item levels. Just as examples, a bunny hat has higher armor than a helmet or five headshots is not enough to kill a high-level enemy without any protection (or other lore reason why they don't get hurt).
Yeah, the strengths outweigh the weaknesses for me as well.

Still, I imagine how much better both of those games could be if they just improved the loot systems and balance. Funny thing is, they didn't have those issues in the first two Witcher games.

Trying to be more mainstream is definitely part of the problem.
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January 14th, 2021, 10:46
I love side quests and the exploring side of games, but the main focus of a rpg game should be to have a strong story mode and to make decisions in the main quest. After the start to finish experience is rock solid, then they should start to think in implementing the side quests, and in all of them should be a reason for us to get involved. What I think in the side quests (even in witcher 3 that had some awsome ones), it that there is a lot of filler. And from my prespective it´s not necessary, they wont sell more for have 50 hours of side quests that are filler, and only 3 or 4 ones that are awsome. The AAA companies should rethink the time and money they waste on experiences that most of the gamers think are boring.
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January 14th, 2021, 10:56
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yeah, the strengths outweigh the weaknesses for me as well.

Still, I imagine how much better both of those games could be if they just improved the loot systems and balance. Funny thing is, they didn't have those issues in the first two Witcher games.

Trying to be more mainstream is definitely part of the problem.
Combining good sides from CDPR and Ubisoft games would make an excellent game. Maybe add a leveling system where leveling gives your character more moves and makes them more efficient using their weapons instead of item level requirements and a targeting system where the body is divided into parts instead of total health. Someone soon has to take the step and make a truly next-gen game. Unfortunately, it was not CP2077.

EDIT: The first two Witcher games had relatively little loot, so did the original Baldur's Gates. This is what I keep on repeating: less is more when it comes to loot. It makes you care about the loot in a different way compared to MMO-style item spamming.
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January 14th, 2021, 11:06
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Someone soon has to take the step and make a truly next-gen game. Unfortunately, it was not CP2077.
Someone already has its called Star Citizen. Ha..zing..I'm hilarious. Unfortunately like you said above the hardware needed just isn't ready for an experience like that.

Also games are about making money and excluding 95% of your buyer base isn't a sound business decision. Last game that did this was Crysis on the PC. It was a beast.
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January 14th, 2021, 11:09
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Combining good sides from CDPR and Ubisoft games would make an excellent game. Maybe add a leveling system where leveling gives your character more moves and makes them more efficient using their weapons instead of item level requirements and a targeting system where the body is divided into parts instead of total health. Someone soon has to take the step and make a truly next-gen game. Unfortunately, it was not CP2077.
Ironically, I think Ubisoft is where some of the worst aspects of those games came from. Like the maps littered with icons and the overabundance of generic filler quests.

Originally Posted by largh View Post
EDIT: The first two Witcher games had relatively little loot, so did the original Baldur's Gates. This is what I keep on repeating: less is more when it comes to loot. It makes you care about the loot in a different way compared to MMO-style item spamming.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. I prefer to have to work hard to get that next weapon or piece of armor and for it to last me more than 20 minutes before finding another one that's better. That's one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of Piranha Bytes.
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January 14th, 2021, 11:10
Originally Posted by largh View Post
A gaming magazine in Finland wrote in their review something like "Like Witcher 3, also Cyberpunk 2077 proves that CD Projekt can make outstanding stories, characters, and worlds, but not so excellent games". I started thinking about this and have to agree. Both TW3 and CP2077 have excellent characters and worlds but from the game mechanic side, they are not great. I am not after the game itself in games but the immersion, stories, and interactivity they provide. Consequently, CDPR games work for me. The immersion could be improved a lot by ditching that stupid loot system and some of the stupidly simple "RPG elements" connected to the character and item levels. Just as examples, a bunny hat has higher armor than a helmet or five headshots is not enough to kill a high-level enemy without any protection (or other lore reason why they don't get hurt).
What CD Projekt should do is hire someone who designs campaigns for tabletop modules. They always have to make sure that the items and quests provide a good experience and are mindful of the expected abilities of the party, and allow to make adjustments throughout. When I look at Durlags Tower that is the sort of care and attention I expect regardless if its 2d or 3d.
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January 14th, 2021, 11:20
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
When I look at Durlags Tower that is the sort of care and attention I expect regardless if its 2d or 3d.
Great example. To this day, that's still one of the greatest crpg dungeons ever made imo. I think Watcher's Keep is also right up there with it.
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January 14th, 2021, 11:51
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Great example. To this day, that's still one of the greatest crpg dungeons ever made imo. I think Watcher's Keep is also right up there with it.
Watcher's Keep is another for sure - it has so many iconic and memorable encounters. Depressing to think that is still a yardstick for the industry 2 decades later. I think CD Projekts bigger issue is that they are not on top of the technology and because of that can't do the iteration required. Mind you, its also the broader AAA industries problem. Maybe they should stop trying to raise the bar for a bit and focus on expanding the experience. It wouldn't kill them not being bleeding edge for a change.
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January 14th, 2021, 12:48
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January 14th, 2021, 13:34
Originally Posted by largh View Post
EDIT: The first two Witcher games had relatively little loot, so did the original Baldur's Gates. This is what I keep on repeating: less is more when it comes to loot. It makes you care about the loot in a different way compared to MMO-style item spamming.
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I agree with that wholeheartedly. I prefer to have to work hard to get that next weapon or piece of armor and for it to last me more than 20 minutes before finding another one that's better. That's one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of Piranha Bytes.
Statement of the year so far! I wish RPGs these days had in general less loot, more uniqueness to it. I dislike so much these randomised loot matrixes with colour coding, affixes and whatnot.

It always felt so special to find an unique item in older RPGs, sometimes you would even make a whole new character concept and replay the whole game just to make the best use of a particular unique item (The Equalizer anyone?).

That still happens nowadays in some games, but I feel to lesser extent. I don't mind too much that there is more loot being dropped around, but I feel these lazy randomisation systems often ruin the fun of finding new loot for me. Developers think it's the right way to go, give the gamer these constant charges of dopamine lighting up in their brain for short bursts of happiness that keeps them playing, but to me, it has the contrary effect. It makes nothing worth finding or looting. Ultimately, loot is the reward for doing tasks or completing quests in RPGs, and even if what matters most is the story, being tangibly rewarded in the process matters too.
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January 14th, 2021, 14:03
@Nereida, so true. The only "loot" I care about in CP2077 are the cars that can only be obtained through quests/finding. The rest is meh. One can upgrade the existing gear but has to specialize in tech to do that at higher levels. One can always find a bunny-ear-hat or a clown mask that has higher specs than the existing gear anyway, no matter how much I waste money in upgrading. This game is an example of how *not* to make the loot system. Even Ubisoft games and some MMOs have better ones.
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January 14th, 2021, 14:25
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Sorry but with eight years of development already saying it needed more time for development is a flawed fallacy. You should be focusing on the mis-management.

Todd Howard is 100% correct about Starfield.
To much hype can destroy a game.
Or at the very least it makes us immune to hype, I stop clicking/reading speculative articles and forget things even exist. I forgot about red dead redemption as I just become so used to scrolling past, like a blindspot. It was a comment on here by a real person making a comparison that I went and had a look.

Eight years seems excessive, the developers must have been sick to the back teeth of it.
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January 14th, 2021, 16:40
By the time I can finally play it, it'll be a masterpiece.
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January 14th, 2021, 17:21
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Re-post from my other thread.

Sigh…just makes you wonder how long we have to wait for the expansions, or if they will even bother at this point. Probably the worst launched and mismanaged game in years.
What about Mass Effect: Andromeda and Fallout 76? Those were some pretty crappy releases too. I think Cyberpunk has some great competition. Anyone want to hazard on which release was truly the worst and most mismanaged?
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January 14th, 2021, 18:13
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
EDIT: The first two Witcher games had relatively little loot, so did the original Baldur's Gates. This is what I keep on repeating: less is more when it comes to loot. It makes you care about the loot in a different way compared to MMO-style item spamming.
Amen to this.

I could say the same with leveling. I think that it's something they got right with the Baldur's Gates but I don't remember seeing it replicated in any other games : Have an entire game dedicated to Level 1 to 7-8-9, then another game dedicated to the next 10 levels. That way, it's easier to have a world feel coherent, and make loot remain relevant for the entire game. Leveling-up is fun, but I don't need to have my entire party level up after every single quests.
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January 14th, 2021, 19:36
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Couldn't disagree more. I played with the male voice and he was average at best. Poor line readings throughout. The second most important character is played by Keanu Reeves, who is a terrible actor and does a predictably poor job. Another major character, Panam, is a good character but the voice actress is completely unconvincing whenever she's trying to express excitement, anger, fear, etc. Lizzy Wizzy (in a boring, simplistic quest) is played by Grimes, a non actress. It shows. Another character is played by a Twitch streamer. And on and on. The random conversations you overhear often have better voice acting than the major quests.
Lol I also couldn't disagree more. This game had some of the best dialogue and voice actors for pretty much any game I have played. Thought it was simply amazing how good it was.

EDIT: Granted I tend to not be overly critical. But I have played so many games where the dialogue and VO did nothing for me or even detracted from the game. This game sucked me right into the world and didn't let go till the end - which was also one of the best endings I have ever had in a game emotionally as well as length and detail.

Game has its share of problems and cut content,etc., but the main dialogue, excellent sidequests, and most of the VO certainly wasn't part of it, for me anyhow.
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January 14th, 2021, 19:41
All I can say is I'm stoked for this game! But then again, I never planned to buy it right away… I didn't play Witcher 3 until almost 2 years after it came out and it'll be something similar here. I'm sure by then much of the issues will have been ironed out… and maybe more importantly, all the hype around the game will have faded away (well, maybe it already has!) and I'll be able to enjoy without unrealistic expectations.

I didn't play DA:2 and Mass Effect: Andromeda until long after they came out … and enjoyed both in large part to not having too high of an expectation by that point.

Something to be said in not being too invested in any one game being the pinnacle of your life's ambitions.
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January 14th, 2021, 19:55
I enjoyed the voice acting a whole lot. Keanu was somewhat stilted and stereotypical, but that very much fit the character he was playing. I have read many favorable comments about female V though I don't have an opinion there because my playthrough was with male V and I felt as though he and the other voice actors did a very good job.

In my view all of the hype was justified and paid off with a very good and very long (which is a good thing) game. It could have used several more months of testing and fixing bugs, though.
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