Trying to pick my next game from these three

So the buzz on these three indie games has me itching to jump into one of them. But each has something I feel like I might bounce off of.

Outward, ATOM RPG, and Pathfinder: Kingmaker

A few RPGs I have liked in the past: Gothic 2, Fallout 1, Fallout NV, Skyrim, Eschalon 2, Risen series, Two Worlds 1. And I got into a lot of survival. games that have been released

Overhead or 3rd person, 1st person, doesn't matter to me but the qualities from those games do.

Exploration, atmosphere, survival elements, fantasy, not micromanagement.

ATOM RPG isn't fantasy but I like the setting and the price. It seems like it will have the least bugs currently, it seems to have the most positive reaction.

What i'm interested in Outward for is the exploration, survival elements and atmosphere, but the long traveling seems like it could really ruin my day. I don't think I'll mind the single save and the "dying" mechanic. I've read advice on how to minimize tthe tedium of the long treks. But that seems to involve a solid dose of micro management. Still, in terms of gameplay, it seems like a simple - in the moment - experience. (okay immersive), I might like that.

Pathmaker Kingfinder seems like an involved story, which I'm losing more interest in as I get older, but I did read that it eschews much of the more pretentious god story nonsense in a lot of RPGs these days, which is a positive. The classic RPG gameplay looks great, but the Bugs. And the Kingdom management just doesn't sound fun to me.

Not that I have to, but I would feel better about myself, if I waited for a sale on the latter two. Anyways, just wondering from those who may have dabbled in two or three of these games if you think I would find more pros than cons in any of them.

My suggestion based on my preferences and play order.
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1. Pathmaker: Kingmaker

Pros:

• Good character creation
• Interesting story
• Fun combat, dialogue and exploration
• Comparable to Baldur's Gate
• Good Companions

Cons:

• A lot of Load screens
• Absolute time sink
• Bugs
• Kingdom Management

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2. ATOM RPG

Pros:

• Captures the feel of classic RPGs like Fallout & Wasteland
• Good Character customization that affects gameplay
• Freedom of choice when completing quests
• Funny characters and dialog
• New content added for Free

Cons:

• Graphics are mediocre
• Most Areas look and feel small
• Terrible AI
• Clunky interface

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3. Outward

Pros:

• Large Realistic world
• 3 different story paths
• Can be played in Co-Op
• Skill-based combat

Cons:

• A lot of backtracking
• Difficulty spikes
• Unclear dialogue and decisions
• Very minimal voice acting
• No Map Markers or fast travel
• Minimal character customization options

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Thanks for the in depth bullet points. I have to decide which game's faults annoy me the least Probably leaning more towards Pathfinger, then Outward second. It's likely I'll get all three over time with sales, and never finish any of them.

Pick outward.

Most of the games you mention are 3rd person. You like survival, and you are getting older. Easy choice

It's always best to go with what you're most in the mood for. What kind of setting do you want to be immersed in right now?

If you're not really sure, then go with the best overall game. Out of those three, it would probably be Kingmaker.

I'd say try out Kingmaker first Why? Well, it's one of the best games I've ever played (also voted GOTY 2018 here and at Codex), and well.. I haven't played the other two, so don't know what they are like

Lemme correct something

Couchpotato said:

1. Pathmaker: Kingmaker

• A lot of Load screens
• Absolute time sink
• Bugs
• Kingdom Management

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- True, but that's not the game's fault (Unity).
- Since when is that negative? The game is epic - it's positive.
- No bugs now, a few annoyances did remain but those are irrelevant.
- Not quite, kingdom management is almost a pure awsomeness, the actual problem are design crime timers but players fail to see that (use any timers dumping mod and you'll notice kingdom management is actually fun). I said almost as lawful characters get more benefits which is like gimme a break.

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That said… I suggest this order:

1. Atom RPG - it's basically Fallout 1.5. Aka a game in between FO1 and FO2. To some receiving new content for free will be a positive thing, to me it's a timewaste as the game is good as it is and IMO they should start working on a sequel.

2. Pathfinder 1 - It's basically BG3. Yes it has tons of story, but it's easy to follow, it's not boring and there aren't walls of text in dartagnan style.

3. Outward - don't buy this garbage. Never ever. You don't have time for that bs.

That's my list not yours. Go make your own Joxer.

mbuddha said:

Thanks for the in depth bullet points. I have to decide which game's faults annoy me the least Probably leaning more towards Pathfinger, then Outward second. It's likely I'll get all three over time with sales, and never finish any of them.

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Personally I would play Pathfinder or Atom as my recommendation. Still as much as I don't want to say, like others said you might enjoy Outward as it fits your tastes more.

I am somewhat with Joxer on this. Outward I have been following but the graphics are not really to my taste - bit anime and not into the color palette. Doubt I would like all the running around and all the videos I have seen indicate it is a bit empty. I also tend to like companions as an option.

I am currently playing ATOM and have played over 200 hours of Pathfinder (and have completed it once and I have a second game started but on hold).

I am amazed how nice the graphics are in ATOM considering it is an indie and only cost $15. You can't blaze through skill checks - they are are often tough and don't think any companion can cover for you like they can in PK. There are, so far, some choice and consequences I have had to live with that I was surprised by. The inventory doesn't bother me - there are sort buttons and found it easy enough. I will say, however, I am not a hoarder for items like many are and I am playing a technophobe martial artists with no skill in guns or crafting/technology. So I don't have to fill up my inventory with crafting supplies or ammunition. So that makes it easier.

That being said if you want a long, involved, fun game with a ton of character creation options (not visual but in spells, traits/abilities, etc.) then PK is probably your best bet. Also depends on fantasy/post-apoc, style of play, cost, etc.

PK is a bit of a time commitment though - long game. It also has timed quests and while the timers are pretty lenient it can mean missing things if you get side tracked or want to just always be doing your own thing. I fully enjoyed PK even though not a big fan of timed quests … but I never felt too constrained by them … just something worth considering.

So many different pros/cons really.

My order would be PK first as it has the edge due to it being fantasy (my favorite genre), fantastic options for making custom characters, great/fun companions, and is just overall a fun fantasy adventure.

Next would be ATOM because it is a throw back to the all fallout's in many ways, which I enjoy (but should also state I also love FNV and FO4) and for the price it is a well made fun game.

Outward is on my list in case I get really bored and need a game to play. But based on all I have read and seen it isn't really my style.

PS - However, based on what you wrote, I think you would probably be closer geared towards Outward or PK. Possibly Outward if you like open-world, survival, exploring.

PK does require micro-management IMO due to kingdom building, lots of companions, and keeping track of a lot of things.

wolfgrimdark said:

That being said if you want a long, involved, fun game with a ton of character creation options (not visual but in spells, traits/abilities, etc.) then PK is probably your best bet. Also depends on fantasy/post-apoc, style of play, cost, etc.

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I have to, well, not completely agree on this.
The game has a few misdesigns and I've already noted above that it's made easy for lawful characters. But that's not all.

In certain areas MC will be alone. With locked chests. Luckily, you don't have to be a thief to open those, but you need to invest in trickery (note that lockpicking is diceroll where savescumming can open even a lock harder than your trickery level, also very early in the game you may buy cheap +5 trickery gloves from a merchant in the capital). Or ignore those chests. And then your inner completionist won't sleep because it's possible the deadly item of doom is in one of those chests.

While any party combo can cover for different checks (including trickery), diplomacy in dialogues (not in minigames though) is MC related. So you should create a diplomatic beast because, you see, diplomacy checks passed don't just open new pathways in dialogues or in the world, but earn you an enormous amout of XP you'll desperately need, I mean, is this a joke?! Diplomacy also covers bluff and intimidate checks so pumping it on MC it's still somewhat of an excuse to roleplay a certain attitude. But still.

The game has tons and tons of hidden stuff: loot, lore and hints toward solving puzzles or quests. While MC doesn't have to be the one with high perception, make sure you always keep a party member around with an insane perception. Insane like make sure it's the highest possible on the current level with tons of perception upping items.

Communal energy resists are a musthave spells. Luckily a few companions have those so at least here you don't have to plan some MC builds with that.

Animal companion adds a bonus to carry weight, deals some additional damage plus is tanking. Win-win situation so do it. Summons make fights easy but summoning takes time, this way you'll need one summon less.

Finally, you know a dialogue will end up in a fight. This game from the end of this decade still repeats the cardinal sin of RPGs. Your MC still needs to kiss the interlocutor in order to start a dialogue. When shit hits the fan, it's your MC who will get aggroed because of being the closest to enemies which makes squishy MCs, again after all these years, a pain in the arse. Don't bother to complain on steam forums, fanatics there will say buffs buffs everywhere prior to everything or quicksave, check what happens, quickload. Cmon.

I'm saying, sure, there are tons of character creation options, but at least half of those will make your life miserable not because it's some shit build but because the game is designed around an idea that everyone's MC will be some cleric/ranger/druid tank with a pet.

Pathfinder has one more dlc I think (or did they release the last dlc). I would wait for the game of the year version since you have waited this long....

@joxer;

I don't disagree with the general assessment but I am not that OCD on completing everything and I found playing the game on an easier mode (I played it on a custom mode but it was between "story telling mode" and "normal") let me get away with a lot.

Granted the character that completed the game was a sorcerer (rather squishy hence why I played on easy settings) with max charisma and diplomacy but not to meta-game the game but because that is my Fenn character who is very high on charisma and always wants to talk his way out of things.

I am currently playing a Ranger (melee strength based not ranged) Tiefling with horrible charisma and he is rude and anti-social. I am finding the game play different for sure but that's fine. I have no worries about being able to complete the game with this character even if I miss out on some things due to his lack of diplomacy/speech skills.

So I agree with what you wrote for those people who have your, or similar, play style … but you don't have to play that way if you don't want to in my opinion … course I won't know for sure till I finish the game but pretty sure I can complete the game without taking the diplomacy path. Open to admitting I am wrong on this if it happens though.

As for the animal companion - well that's a given with me and has nothing to do with meta-game advantages

PK has its flaws but overall I found it a very enjoyable and fun game. Only my opinion though - so much depends on your play style, personality, and the like.

I'm not saying the game can't be finished if you use a build that is not some ultimate whatever.

It's core design decisions that weren't really good. Will you kill everything or just bluff everyone instead to solve a quest? It's a difference between earning 360 XP or 20.000 XP. No, I'm not exaggerating here, passing skillchecks earns abnormal amounts of XP, much more than an actual quest solved XP reward. If it was a slight difference noone shoud care, but it's extreme.

mbuddha said:

Outward, ATOM RPG, and Pathfinder: Kingmaker

A few RPGs I have liked in the past: Gothic 2, Fallout 1, Fallout NV, Skyrim, Eschalon 2, Risen series, Two Worlds 1. And I got into a lot of survival. games that have been released

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Most of those 'liked' games are pretty old and the three games you're looking at are current. What about the games in between? The ones that have had their bugs cleared, guides written, and prices dropped? The Witcher series is pretty good and the last game is extremely good. ELEX has a Gothic/Risen feel. Kingdom Come: Deliverance turned out well. Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity brought isometric games back from the dead.

All good recommendations Zloth but he only asked about three games.

• Pathmaker: Kingmaker
• ATOM RPG
• Outward

He also asked only for pros and cons for just those three games. Anyway all this did was remind me I have to replay Elex, and wonder when the sequel will be release?

At least two of your picks are not fully completed as of yet, so take that for what it's worth. Outward I don't have any personal knowledge as of yet, but it's a very new release, so it also might need some fleshing out before being complete.

Zloth said:

Most of those 'liked' games are pretty old and the three games you're looking at are current. What about the games in between? The ones that have had their bugs cleared, guides written, and prices dropped? The Witcher series is pretty good and the last game is extremely good. ELEX has a Gothic/Risen feel. Kingdom Come: Deliverance turned out well. Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity brought isometric games back from the dead.

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Well I'm an RPG junkie like everyone else here so yes I've played all of those. Elex is probably the best of that group but I stopped and found it near impossible to dive back in where I left off. Played D:OS a few times (never finished but I like the first half better, and the second playthrough was co-op with a gf so that was fun). I just don't like the sequel (unpopular opinion). Pillars 1 and 2 start great enough and then just lose me. As for W3 I plan to continue that at some point, I just wish it was more sandbox/exploration - everything is quest based, you don't get to stumble into any adventure ala Skyrim. I finished W1 and 2 and still maintain that the first one is the best of the series. And I have KCD as well and think it's fantastic.

Maybe those (liked) games were better, I had more time to devote to them, and/or I'm more picky now. But thanks for the suggestions

I'm the most drawn to Outward but I really should wait for updates and the possibility of more content.

Kingmaker has the content, maybe too much, but it's been updated quite a bit. It's likely I'll give that one a whirl first.

ATOM also appears to be quite updated and probably offers the most streamlined experience and less tedium than the other two. But I'm more in the mood for fantasy.

So based on the comments in this thread, I'm probably going to pick up PK, but I'll be checking out some character build guides and take advice on improving quality of life for my playthrough (it's uncommon for me to replay games). And installing mods.