Jeff Vogel - Why all Our Games Look Like Crap

Stingray said:

To me, the KS seemed more like a pre-order really, but a pre-order that puts a lot more money in Vogel's pocket

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's my beef with it, as I explained above. I don't think it's deceptive, exactly, but I also don't think KS is for successful companies to get a nice little advance on business as usual. I do think people have a reasonable expectation that KS money is to facilitate something that couldn't otherwise be achieved.

What I simply don't understand is why they made the graphics worse…. To me the avadon style was ok

Kordanor said:

Just posted the first hour of gameplay on youtube (permission by Spiderwebs Press agency). And just for you guys I made this one in english this time, as there isn't any other preview around yet as far as I have seen.

Click to expand...

Hmmm. Doesn't look too bad in this video. Still worse than his latest stuff (IMO), but actually - I might give it a try.

pibbur who thinks this contribution by the kordanor is an example of a not-annoying let's play.

I am not at all bothered by simple 2D graphics. I'm even fine with the extreme that is infamously known as "pixel art".
While I guess the whole pixel art thing is overdone, there are many games where this is actually working extremely well. And there are those where pixel art is really just a way to get away with cheap graphics.

Coming back to Jeff Vogel's games: the graphics convey what they need to convey. But I agree they are not really pretty. In his shoes, would I contract someone to do the graphics for me? Hard to say. With this kind of small business, stuff like that takes alot of trust. So yeah, if I knew someone with the required skills very well, and would be confident in their abilities: sure. Otherwise, I'd probably stick to what works.

Watched the video. In fairness the art assets look good. The perspective makes it all look flatter than it would in isometric I think. The series looks a bit Avadonish

It certainly appears nice enough for me, as long as the story is rich and the combat is fun, I'm sure I'll have a good time with the newest offering.

I think Vogel's response is brilliant. I get it.

What a load of bullshit in the blog.

Seriously, I have an urge to switch my future posts into:
Jeff Vogel? Neverheard.

Here's the thing about graphics: If you go into steam and look at the library as a whole, about 80% of the game graphics are horrible SpiderWeb level drivel. Now a good portion of these games sell for under a $1 and I think Jeff's games are worth $5 maybe $10 if I have nothing else at all to play...which will never happen because I play survival/crafting games and they come out about 3 or 4 a month Once this newest game hits a big sale, I'll be sure to grab it.

(TLDR; mini rant about Vogel) feel free to ignore!

My personal history with Spidweb goes all the way back to the original Exile. During that time Jeff would email his players and have back and forth conversations all the time. He was a Mac guy through and through, but he gave us pc gamers a good portion of his time. IIRC, he would release on Mac first and then roll out the pc version a little later.

He lost me when he renamed his game Avernum and sold it a 2nd time. True, there were UI changes and added scenes, but the game sold for full price and was the equivalent of a large patch or mini-expansion.

He redeemed himself a little with the first Geneforge, but then made the cardinal sin of basically cloning the first game and changing some of the names around for the rest of the series. Geneforge is truly horrid when it comes to copy/paste development.

G1 was the last game I paid full price for till Avadon, which again was too much copy/paste designing. At this point, I'll play Vogel but only at bargain bin prices.

@crpgnut;. Not too long, and I did read. Thanks for the explanation. We see these things a bit differently, but I fully understand your position.

pibbur who is still undecided about the new game, but probably should listen to the screams of attention from his backlog.

I tried one of the games a long time ago, and in theory I should like it, but it just didn't grab me.

Nowadays the graphics are a bit if a turn off for me. I do play games with old school graphics like age of decadence or underrail, but I think it's not just the graphics. There's something else and I can't put my finger to it.
Maybe it's the ui too?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Imho the biggest weakness of his games is always the sound, which just sucks.

The Music in game is basically non-existent and in Q&As he actually mentioned that he prefers if people listen to their own music alongside.

And the sound effects are often quite cheap and minimalistic.

Yeah, as a person who believes sound is just as important as graphics to set the mood, I can't abide that laziness.

Definitely. Good sound design is crucial. When I loaded up Baldur's Gate a while back, it really struck me - fantastic sound work and music. Really makes it come alive. I don't think it would be the same game without it.

Strange to have such graphics at this day and age… Even compared to some of his earlier titles, this looks like a downgrade. Perhaps the game is really innovative and fun to play, but I just can't endure that kind of graphics. Obviously this means that I'm not part of his audience, but that is ok. I'm just glad that people who like his style are getting a new rpg to play.

I turn all sound off; I hate the distraction!!

That's usually the first thing I do with a new game: sound off, and make sure subtitles are active.

I can't even imagine turning the sound completely off in a game.. especially when I think of all the great soundtracks that have contributed immensely to my enjoyment over the years.

Games like Gothic, Baldur's Gate, The Witcher, Divinity II, etc, would have been completely different experiences without the fantastic music that accompanies them.

JDR13 said:

I can't even imagine turning the sound completely off in a game.. especially when I think of all the great soundtracks that have contributed immensely to my enjoyment over the years.

Games like Gothic, Baldur's Gate, The Witcher, Divinity II, etc, would have been completely different experiences without the fantastic music that accompanies them.

Click to expand...

It could go both way. While I found music/sound in some games add to the atmosphere, some are just... detracting/immersion breaking.

purpleblob said:

It could go both way. While I found music/sound in some games add to the atmosphere, some are just… detracting/immersion breaking.

Click to expand...

Oh there are definitely some games out there with shit music. However, I think the music/sound being so bad that it's better to turn it off completely is pretty rare.

One thing I experience quite often though is the default volume for music being too loud for my liking. I usually end up setting the music slider at around 50% of the soundFX/speech volumes. Background music should be, you know... in the background.