Skyrim - A Closer Look @ IGN

From what I could see of that forest shot compared to shots I have seen of other areas it looks like the forest shot was either made in an earlier build or it isn't as finished as some of the other areas. Especially with the ground which looked way better in some other screenshots I have seen of other areas.

zadokAllen said:

You can`t really compare Risen to Oblivion in terms of "open world" - because Risen isn`t in the club. Make simple experiment and travel in one direction in both games wilderness` - see how far you`ll get.

In Risen you can stick your nose everywhere, or at least try - strong monsters will stop you - but it`s not true "open world", the way I define one. You`re still confined to corridors and areas, albeit it`s done way much better than in most games.

As for Risen being a better looker than Oblivion - well it`s got few years seniority. Also it`s totally different to code gfx for true open world - hence your dreaded repetition in Oblivion. But for me the ability to see a landmark from miles away and the fact that a trek there will take me 20 minutes is unbeatable.

That said, of course Risen is a looker. If they tweaked the DOF a bit it would be even better. Also love the torch dynamics - shadows are second to none.

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Ehm, what?

Risen is a pure open world game - and even though I can't decide how others would define it - I have to say you're not making any sense

Corridors and areas? It's basically an entirely open island and you can get to all the places you can see - except for a few areas that are locked for quest reasons.

It's true that it's smaller than Oblivion, though. But this isn't about size, it's about structure.

As for why it looks better, it's not really relevant. It just does

DArtagnan said:

Risen is a pure open world game - and even though I can't decide how others would define it - I have to say you're not making any sense

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Since you don`t take on board how I define it - you can not decide if I make sense or not.

Corridors and areas? It's basically an entirely open island and you can get to all the places you can see - except for a few areas that are locked for quest reasons.

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Heh Maybe , but `all you can see` is cleverly confined to roads and areas.

As for why it looks better, it's not really relevant. It just does

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Lemme paraphrase a little: As for why it isn`t "open world" - as defined by school of Oblivion - is not really relevant. It just isn`t

zadokAllen said:

Since you don`t take on board how I define it - you can not decide if I make sense or not.

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I'm not deciding, I'm saying what I think

Heh Maybe , but `all you can see` is cleverly confined to roads and areas.

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You mean that's all YOU can see

Lemme paraphrase a little: As for why it isn`t "open world" - as defined by school of Oblivion - is not really relevant. It just isn`t

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You may think Oblivion defines what an open world game is, but I don't.

DArtagnan said:

You mean that's all YOU can see

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Ah, the old "we played a different game then" trope. Unless you used no-clip at the nonexistent console?

You may think Oblivion defines what an open world game is, but I don't.

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All TES games did, Oblivion is a culmination, when it comes to graphics/world itself - for that`s what we`re discussing remember? As for gameplay design philosophy I can agree it`s `open`in Risen too.

zadokAllen said:

All TES games did, Oblivion is a culmination, when it comes to graphics/world itself - for that`s what we`re discussing remember? As for gameplay design philosophy I can agree it`s `open`in Risen too.

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Pretty sure Might & Magic and Wizardry defined open world RPGs before TES even existed. As for who's the current king? I'd say PB by a long shot given the exceptional quality of every handcrafted location in Gothic 1 + 2 versus the open landscape of TES.

Of course, if "open world" means "open landscape" to you, then obviously TES is the king.

zadokAllen said:

Ah, the old "we played a different game then" trope. Unless you used no-clip at the nonexistent console?

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I assume we played the same game, and my experience was that of an open world.

Then again, I like realistic passageways when crossing a river, or heading through a mountain pass. Maybe you like worlds without many such features? I seem to recall some bridges or corridors in Oblivion, but I didn't mind them.

PB are fantastic at building detailed worlds with plausible architecture.

All TES games did, Oblivion is a culmination, when it comes to graphics/world itself - for that`s what we`re discussing remember? As for gameplay design philosophy I can agree it`s `open`in Risen too.

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I'm not sure what you think we're discussing.

I'm not really discussing anything, I'm just saying that I don't think Oblivion defines what an open world game is.

Personally, I think both games are open world games - because they both feature landscapes of a significant size that are open to non-linear exploration - as the primary content.

That said, I think Oblivion sucks in terms of the streaming technology - because it uses a primitive cell-structure, where the game visibly stutters (even on the very best hardware) when you approach a new cell - so that the corresponding content can be loaded. That's an immersion killer for me.

I don't think it makes much sense to have such a basic concept be defined by any one game. We can debate what game does it best - and in that way, Oblivion is sort of in the middle.

I think Risen is at the top - though I prefer a larger landmass, as long as detail isn't sacrificed. I also appreciate that dungeons aren't areas to be loaded seperately.

PB are the masters, but I think Bethesda are better at providing a totally non-linear experience. But the world suffers a great deal from that kind of structure.

Then we have much older games that do it well, like Ultima 7 or something like the Might and Magic games. I'd even say Pool of Radiance was sufficiently "open world" to qualify for the genre - though it was sort of a mix between linear and non-linear exploration.

I agree on Wiz/M&M -the later ones - but I thought we`re in a Skyrim thread. Hence TES. Otherwise - Drakkhen was a first true 3d open world for me.

Oh, how did I know that Gothic`s gonna pop in here sooner or later?
It is rather obvious that you can craft your locations in much more detail - because your engine is not truly "open".

DArtagnan said:

PB are the masters

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I think it sums it up nicely. No doubt they`ll soon unveil cure for cancer, anti gravity and few other handy things.

After all they also do BEST combat and BEST open world engines. Given it is nonsense, we can extrapolate as much.

I give up. There`s just no way through the collective wall of positive bias towards Piranha Bytes games on this site. Which by the way are great - Risen is my 2nd in the current PC ranking (surprise: FO3 is 1st). But by no means they are impervious to any critique - which is the case here.

"The lands will play home to wildlife that should behave sensibly thanks to Skyrim’s new AI system"

HA HA a de zha vu

Risen open world? LOL , try to entirely skip the rebel camp and see what happens .

Tragos said:

Risen open world? LOL , try to entirely skip the rebel camp and see what happens.

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I have. I joined the Monastery instead as an Inquisitor (got taken there by the first guard I met). What's your point?

zadokAllen said:

I think it sums it up nicely. No doubt they`ll soon unveil cure for cancer, anti gravity and few other handy things.

After all they also do BEST combat and BEST open world engines. Given it is nonsense, we can extrapolate as much.

I give up. There`s just no way through the collective wall of positive bias towards Piranha Bytes games on this site. Which by the way are great - Risen is my 2nd in the current PC ranking (surprise: FO3 is 1st). But by no means they are impervious to any critique - which is the case here.

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You seem to take it personally, when people have a certain preference.

That's a strange reaction to me.

In any case, I think Fallout 3 is a fantastic open world game - and when properly modded, I think it can challenge Risen in terms of the overall experience.

I was mostly thinking in terms of fantasy worlds - and I have to admit that Fallout 3 is a very strong contender for the best open world.

The reason I prefer Risen, is that I'm not really a big fan of the post-apocalyptic genre, and especially not the sensation of playing in a destroyed "grey" world for such a long time. Too depressing

I love games with more variety, and I have a special fondness for forests and other lush areas.

That's probably why I think Oblivion is THE best game when dealing with forests

DArtagnan said:

You seem to take it personally, when people have a certain preference.

That's a strange reaction to me.

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Strange how in two different threads this same reaction....anyways.

PB the masters also pooped out gothic 3, which many of you louded before release the oblivion killer....after release? Wait for fan patches.

rune_74 said:

Strange how in two different threads this same reaction….anyways.

PB the masters also pooped out gothic 3, which many of you louded before release the oblivion killer….after release? Wait for fan patches.

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When I say PB are masters, I'm talking about their ability to craft worlds.

Gothic 3 had many issues, but I think the world is pretty amazing - especially when you consider the size of it. Unfortunately, the combat balance was horrible - and they obviously didn't have the time/resources to finish the game properly.

Oblivion was always a dreadfully dull game at heart, but several aspects of it shine quite brightly. Among them, would be the forests and the totally non-linear structure of the game design. I really liked those aspects of the game.

DArtagnan said:

You seem to take it personally, when people have a certain preference.

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No, I don`t. This is teh internets and I`ve learned not to take it too seriously long ago. But certain more insane arguments, like this about Risen being a technical open-world master will get my eyebrow raised

On the other hand your sentence is also completely meaningless in context of internet discussion- it can be applied to any post on any thread. Rather childish playground tactic.

DoctorNarrative said:

I'm not sure which I would say is better at the moment… I will say though that Risen was a whole lot better than Oblivion.

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I happen to agree with you that for me, personally, Risen was much more fun to play.

But comparing Oblivion to Risen is to compare apples to oranges. They are both RPGs, but still, two very different animals (or, err, fruits) altogether. Oblivion is a pure sandbox game while Risen is not (although it has some of the trappings of a sandbox game, Risen does not share the same breadth of 'sandboxness' as Oblivion).

And yes, I just made up the word 'sandboxness.'

DArtagnan said:

That said, I think Oblivion sucks in terms of the streaming technology - because it uses a primitive cell-structure, where the game visibly stutters (even on the very best hardware) when you approach a new cell - so that the corresponding content can be loaded. That's an immersion killer for me.

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That is one of the best articulations on the subject I've read. I wish I could make that quote a sticky on Bethesda's official Skyrim forum. I've wished for years that Bethesda would do streaming worlds better. I've often wondered why much smaller developers, with far fewer resources, have been able to develop fully realized streaming worlds while Bethesda can't (or chooses not to). Espeically after watching the GameInformer video of Bethesda's studio - there's really no excuse for the lame cell loading after watching that.

TheMadGamer said:

I've wished for years that Bethesda would do streaming worlds better. I've often wondered why much smaller developers, with far fewer resources, have been able to develop fully realized streaming worlds while Bethesda can't (or chooses not to).

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(sigh)

I`d be most interested to learn about these devs and their "fully realized streaming worlds". And, we`ve been over PB already, so...

zadokAllen said:

No, I don`t. This is teh internets and I`ve learned not to take it too seriously long ago. But certain more insane arguments, like this about Risen being a technical open-world master will get my eyebrow raised

On the other hand your sentence is also completely meaningless in context of internet discussion- it can be applied to any post on any thread. Rather childish playground tactic.

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Yes, I'm using childish playground tactics by stating that you seem to take something to heart. Haven't you noticed how every other post from you is about how we all just hate Bethesda - and everything said against them is part of that?

It's like you have a misson to defend Bethesda - and you keep seeing everyone here as Bethesda-bashers.

I'm not bashing anyone, I'm making observations based on my experience with their games. You keep overlooking all the good things that I'm saying about their work - and I'm not sure if you really HAVE to believe we're all salivating non-sensical bashers.

I think you have a very bad habit of underestimating those who disagree with you, and you're constantly on shaky ground. So far, you've ended up imagining things about me each and every time you run out of support for your argument.

Is it really so hard to accept that people can have legitimate grievances with games from certain developers?

After all, I fully understand that you're fond of Bethesda and their games. Why not - they have some great features.

But unless you can explain why you like them so much , and why others shouldn't have the problems they claim to have - you're not going to get anywhere. At least, to me, you seem to lack discipline when you debate something. Like people should just agree after a few weak arguments, and if they don't - they're obviously using childish tactics or whatever you tell yourself.

zadokAllen said:

(sigh)

I`d be most interested to learn about these devs and their "fully realized streaming worlds". And, we`ve been over PB already, so…

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I'm not sure what part of my post has made you such a sad panda. I'm not aware of what you've already been over with PB?

That said (and without pointing to any PB games), what I'd like to see in Skyrim is an outdoor world that is contiguous - including cities and structures. You wonder into a city from the wilds seamlessly (no load screen), you then wonder into a castle seamlessly, and so on.

In my view, this change would allow for some really great thieving gameplay possibilities and just add to the overall immersion of the game world.