RPGWatch Feature: Worst RPG of 2010

Cm said:
As is true with every gamer and every game, it is subjective and gleaned from personal tastes and experience as to which ones we enjoy and which we want to get a refund for.

This pole was just a quick selection process regarding what the majority of Watch members thought. If you ran the same pole on other forums the results might be totally different. It sure does stir the pot and get people posting every year. :)
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I thought we took a POLL, but obviously, you have been indulging in too much dancing!! :)
 
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Dancing with a pole? That's what does Cm? That remind me something... :thinking:
 
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Dasale said:
Gothic 3 fighting had irritating details and the auto lock merged to clicking feast was producing an awful result.

But G1 and even more G2+NOTR had the best action sword fighting system ever done in first point of view/over the shoulder RPG.

So weird you quote it as weak… Don't say me it's Oblivion/Morrowind… My bet is more you never played G2+NOTR.
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Since I have played G1 + G2 + NotR and I am a faithful fan of the series, that assumption is completely incorrect. But more importantly, your opinion about Gothic games' combat system is incorrect as well, since even Piranha Bytes guys do not see combat as one of the strong points of Gothic games (note the first question).

http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/705/705884p1.html

Should I add that the critics are not fond of Gothic/Gothic 2's combat system as well? You could head over to websites like Gamespot and see. ;)
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/gothic2/review.html
 
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Lol your rpgvault quote is doubly laughable:
  • First it's after Gothic 3 release and G3 screw up the series in part with an awful fighting system allowing click feast. So for sure commenting the fights system when G3 was just released would have been an awful move with plenty fans displeased by the fights quality drop and multiple problems with fights design in G3.
  • Second his comment related to improved fights seems be about Risen I don't see any other post G3 game that qualify, so it was about Risen… that got back to G1&2 approach and fully copy it with only some improvements but still the same flaws (weak for group fighting and inability to give more depth with complement skills for the sword fighting).

For gamespot their opinion about RPG are pointless it's weird to quote them about RPG. Only one quote disqualify this series of words at gamespot: "game's clunky control scheme", totally wrong, it was weird design choice because totally out of the mood of time, but any fan can say you they work very well even for inventory management once you got used to them. For sure if the guy never get used to controls he couldn't enjoy the fights, what a joke.
 
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Dude, I`ll agree that Gothic has a great fighting system if you agree that Oblivion had a superb scaling or Diablo`s strenght is the story. All this statements are f*&^%g nuts, so why not eh? :)
 
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blackcanopus said:
Should I add that the critics are not fond of Gothic/Gothic 2's combat system as well? You could head over to websites like Gamespot and see. ;)
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Since being an ignorant moron with an academic degree in cocksucking seems to be prerecquisite for getting work as a gaming journalist, i'd say this shows nothing.
 
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zadokAllen said:
Dude, I`ll agree that Gothic has a great fighting system if you agree that Oblivion had a superb scaling or Diablo`s strenght is the story. All this statements are f*&^%g nuts, so why not eh? :)
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With such arguing you end consider any game comment as nut, you won't go very far with that.

The first point is I had in mind sword fighting only, not magic nor bow. Also let see it differently, how about the sword fighting in Risen? Are they for you really not as good than those of Oblivion? If you think they aren't as good I could come back with more details about what you can do and not in Oblivion sword fighting.

If you think risen sword fighting is quite better than in Oblivion, then I'd say that what you do in Risen fights I can do it in G2 fights, dodge, timed attack, counter attack, parry, anticipate enemy moves, and more. You can't even see hafl of it in Oblivion fights. Now to be clear the Risen, G1&2 fight system is good through the opponents design.
 
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I only brought Oblivion/scaling as an example of how insane your argument is.

It`s one thing to be a fanboy and defend/praise your favourite game with all your might. It`s ok, I do it sometime myself.
But here`s a protip: statements like "G1 and even more G2+NOTR had the best action sword fighting system ever done in first point of view/over the shoulder RPG." are best avoided when you talk about your game`s weakest point.
 
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zadokAllen said:
I only brought Oblivion/scaling as an example of how insane your argument is.

It`s one thing to be a fanboy and defend/praise your favourite game with all your might. It`s ok, I do it sometime myself.
But here`s a protip: statements like "G1 and even more G2+NOTR had the best action sword fighting system ever done in first point of view/over the shoulder RPG." are best avoided when you talk about your game`s weakest point.
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Well yes that's my opinion, I wonder what RPG with first point of view/over the shoulder RPG implemented a better sword fighting.

That you consider it the weak point of the game is weird, I doubt a lot you enjoyed it because it's a lot about fighting, much more than anything else, dialogs and exploring.

Anyway I'm curious of your example of RPG with first point of view/over the shoulder that allow dodge, timed attack, counter attack, parry, anticipate enemy moves, and more, with a rather nice diversity of enemies involving different tactics, so?

EDIT: Have you really played G2+NOTR or did you just tried it?
 
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I didn`t play G2. Started on G1 - but it`ll have to wait, since I have serious issues with retarded control scheme & The Best Action Sword Fighting System evar!!!!111!

Playing Risen at the mo - it`s combat is…hmmm…adequate? tolerable? something like that. Nothing great, but not a major chore either. If it was more fluid/lock-on was consistent I could even say "good".

I admit one thing - I cant` think about any other PC game that would employ this particular action fighting system with lock-on/(half)circle. So maybe your Gothic is truly a leader - in a field with no competition. And it`s still shit anyway. (Ok, i`m talking the 1st one. If the 2nd is a MAJOR improvement I do apologise)

You see - I forgot that we`re trapped in these pages, where jRPG`s do not exist. And, starting with Zelda, most of their action Rpg`s with this kind of combat system make a mockery of the one you`re trying to praise.

EDIT: The Witcher?
 
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zadokAllen said:
when you talk about your game`s weakest point.
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I wouldn't call Gothic combat anything less than fantastic. It's perfect for an action RPG. Buttonmashing without paying attention results in you being dead very quickly, as it should. Timing your moves is everything. Different enemies have different strengths and weaknesses as well as combat strategies. Once you learn these strengths and weaknesses, and master the controls the combat becomes immenseley satisfying. There is proper learning curve and a nice enough feeling of power in the end.
I can think of exactly 3 games, that have more sophisticated, more satisfying and more responsive melee combat than Gothic 1 & 2. Mount & Blade, Dark Messiah and Severance: Blade of Darkness.
 
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tolknaz said:
I wouldn't call Gothic combat anything less than fantastic. It's perfect for an action RPG. Buttonmashing without paying attention results in you being dead very quickly, as it should. Timing your moves is everything. Different enemies have different strengths and weaknesses as well as combat strategies. Once you learn these strengths and weaknesses, and master the controls the combat becomes immenseley satisfying. There is proper learning curve and a nice enough feeling of power in the end.
I can think of exactly 3 games, that have more sophisticated, more satisfying and more responsive melee combat than Gothic 1 & 2. Mount & Blade, Dark Messiah and Severance: Blade of Darkness.
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Good summarize for a quick overview of G2+NOTR combats. And ok I won't quote the best sword fighting system of RPG with over the shoulder/first person point of view, I'll add "that I know". :)

That said I'll insist to quote that the words are wrong I don't think the G2+NOTR fight system itself is that brilliant, it's brilliance is a lot based on opponents design and diversity.
 
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zadokAllen said:
I didn`t play G2. Started on G1 - but it`ll have to wait, since I have serious issues with retarded control scheme & The Best Action Sword Fighting System evar!!!!111!
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Statements like
zadokAllen said:
But here`s a protip: statements like "G1 and even more G2+NOTR had the best action sword fighting system ever done in first point of view/over the shoulder RPG." are best avoided when you talk about your game`s weakest point.
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are best avoided when you barely played any of the titles in question.

And yes, G1 + G2´s fighting system is really good, unless you suck at its control scheme (which you shouldn´t after an hour or so of playing).
I wonder if you even realize that in the beginning, when you haven´t invested much in your char´s combat skills yet, the fighting is supposed to be "clunky"/cumberstone.
 
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I have to agree with Dasale, tolknaz, and DeepO on this one. Gothic 1+2 and Risen have really solid melee combat. It's hard to describe, but having "clunky" controls is almost necessary in order to make combat feel "realistic" and immersive. You really need to position your character wisely and time your attacks (which is the "clunky part for those not used to it, I'd imagine), while also taking the placement of your attacks into account somewhat as well. Nearly every enemy requires a different set of tactics, and combined with the progression of character skills and unlocked abilities, it is immensely satisfying to out-maneuver opponents in order to win a fight. Saying that good melee combat is not a strength of the Gothic series or Risen just doesn't seem right to me.

I suppose "to each his own" applies here, but I just can't grasp why someone would prefer a silky smooth but really shallow combat system over a more detailed system (not saying zodakAllen does, but a lot of people do). It might take some getting used to, but it is so much more rewarding because it requires tactical awareness and skill.

Edit: I do agree with zodakAllen that Severance: Blade of Darkness has Gothic 1+2 and Risen beat in pure melee combat. So far, BoD is my personal favorite in terms of "realistic" and deep melee combat.
 
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DeepO said:
Statements like […] are best avoided when you barely played any of the titles in question.

Ah, this old chestnut. I knew someone will helpfully point it out :)
Well, no, I actually allow myself some extrapolations in certain cases like these -The-Best-Something-Ever. I didn`t really need much time to establish that whole control scheme is a disaster. I don`t care much about the fact that I can get used to it - and I will because I know it`s a good game - it still sucks anyway.

If it`s fixed in 2nd, ok - fair enough.

And yes, G1 + G2´s fighting system is really good, unless you suck at its control scheme (which you shouldn´t after an hour or so of playing).
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No, it isn`t. It`s passable. Acceptable. But not "really good".
You can not escape comparing such systems to it`s console equivalents, and these run circles around this one - quite literally.

I wonder if you even realize that in the beginning, when you haven´t invested much in your char´s combat skills yet, the fighting is supposed to be "clunky"/cumberstone.
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Nah, I didn`t. It might help, but it won`t fix the fact it`s just not a "really good" system. Not when the guy even sidesteps in some convoluted manner…
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zadokAllen said:
No, it isn`t. It`s passable. Acceptable. But not "really good", IMO. You can not escape comparing such systems to it`s console equivalents, and these run circles around this one - quite literally. IMO


Nah, I didn`t. It might help, but it won`t fix the fact it`s just not a "really good" system, IMO. Not when the guy even sidesteps in some convoluted manner…
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You forgot something. I fixed it for you. :)
 
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