iPad: is it worth it?

Originally Posted by txa1265
Windows tablets have been around for years … and the iPad has sold more in 6 months than the entire decade of Windows tablets. Why? Because the Windows interface doesn't play well on tablets - it is a failure, and has been shown to be a failure year after year after year. Windows is not made for a touch interface - it is a kludgy add-on layer. I hope that this new tablet is better than the hundreds of past ones …

But think about this - the A4 is more powerful in real usage than the Atom. Windows XP was extended BECAUSE of how poorly newer OS worked on Atom. Now you have to add a touch processing software interface (i.e. more overhead) to an already bogged-down system.

Oh … and they don't even use the proper Atom name on their web site … not exactly a confidence booster.

On the website the atom processor is noted as Intel Atom Pineview-M N450. How is that wrong? And it's one of the first Windows 7 Tablet out there. I haven't said it's the first Windows tablets. But my prediction is it will be the first windows 7 tablet that does everything right. As for th UI, they have developed a touch UI that looks fabulous. Check out the videos on youtube to see how good it looks.
It may not be a magical device like the iPad, but it will be faster in everything and work as smoothly if you use the exopc ui. Exopc is still a small company but I think you'll probably hear a lot about it once the first reviews come out in the next week or so. The only disadvantage of the exopc vs the iPad is the battery life (wich is only rated as 4-5 hours). Maybe it's just some wishful thinking on my part, but we'll see in the next few months if the exopc takes off.
So here is a link of the Ciara Vibe wich uses the exopc UI layer (It's actually the exopc)

http://vibe.ciara-tech.com/

Originally Posted by sherwinz28
My wife wants one pretty badly, thankfully it is not in our budget. I always wondered if users feel confined with the fact they have to use Itunes exclusively for their downloads, unless I'm mistaken here. I'd feel like I was in Jail. I do see Dell and another manufacturer coming out with Android versions of the Ipad and I'm sure it will be cheaper and not so confined. I consider Apple products to be more of a luxury item.

I think not just the iPad, but all tablets (iOS/Android/Win7) are luxury items. You can't do anything with a tablet that you can't do with a Desktop. It's just more concveniet for doing certain things (like web browsing on your couch,…).

You know, thats just unfriendly

I should appologize for this, I absolutely did not mean is as an attack on a specific person, the entire stupid and hope for mankind things was an extreme exegeration which I though was quite obvious but my sarcasm and irony sometimes come of wrong. I do see uses for the IPAD, for example it is really good for younger people, or people who are not good at computer, and for a lot of other things.

But IMHO it is inferior in everyway compared to a netbook.

No, and don't be dishonest and use that as a means as an attack against me - someone who digs up 2+ year old threads to self-promote is not such the victim as you claim, and you know it. Sure it was arguable that 'spammer' would have been a more precise term, but either way THEY were at fault for the improper usage of the forums, not I for imprecise term usage.

You entering to call people stupid? Yeah, I guess I still see that as a troll move.

I don't mind if you call me a troll, but I didn't like when you were being rude to that person in the other thread. I don't think it is an improper use to go through the process of searching for a thread related to the subject you want to talk about. In fact people ressurect old threads all the time if they have something new to add.

We all know that the GHz wars are over, and there were many articles early this year showing that 500MHz Cortex A8 outpaced a 1.6GHz Atom!

It was never just about GHz which a machine like the PS2 could show. Neither would a benchmark of math comparssion say everything.

But for example 256 mb of ram and no flash ( I know it is possible to run flash on it now.. but anyway ), and locked to the apple store? 16 GB hard-drive?

Ok we can compare to a lenovo idea pad ( it is not really a good tablet but still ) cost $528 160 GB hard-drive , 2 GB memory… 1.2 ghz processor, it also has a touchpad and comes with windows 7 home premium, you can run or do anything you want… screen is 13.3, and o it has 3 USB's… yeah it is a bit too big for the ipad purpose I know.

Ipad 16 GB hard-drive 256 mb memory cost $754 , you don't get keyboard or camera or anything else in this price.

If someone bought it, enjoys it, and doesn't regret it - then it's worth it.

That's 100% right, and obviously there are a lot of people who did…. I just have a hard time understanding why, and none has given me a signle good reason beyond it is easy to use and I can bring it to bed. Of course that is a typically mainstream opinion….. guess it is not only games being affected

Originally Posted by k1000
On the website the atom processor is noted as Intel Atom Pineview-M N450. How is that wrong?

It is wrong because GG was right - I'm stupid! I get messed up between Pine Trail and Pineview … here is the description:

The current generation of the Atom is codenamed "Pineview" which is used in the "Pine Trail" platform. Intel's current netbook platform (codenamed Pine Trail-M) utilizes an Atom processor (codenamed Pineview-M)

And I don't want to seem like I am down on these things - that isn't my intent. I have been a netbook supporter from the start - heck, I had the whole 'Netbook Gamer' review series on GearDiary until I stopped using a netbook.

I *want* Android tablets to succeed - as I said, I live and breath with my Droid phone on a daily basis (heck, I'm tethered to it now on my Alienware since RPGWatch is blocked at work!)

I don't believe the iPad is 'magical. I think that the combination of solid hardware, a 'right-sized' OS and top-notch multi-touch (i.e. not just dual touch) and great apps from 3rd parties makes it a great solution for many - but not all - applications. The Apple A4 is a 'next gen' SOC based on the ARM Cortex A8, which as I say has been shown to be a more powerful solution than the Atom 450 in testing earlier this year.

And again I say that it is very much the 3rd party support that really makes it great - the apps people are making - heck, Documents 2 Go does 90% of what I need from MS Office, and cost $10 rather than $140!

D'Artagnan is right - everyone needs to asses what they NEED and see what works best for them. For personal use I really don't see a netbook or tablet as anything BUT a luxury … because neither can replace a 'real' computer.

Originally Posted by JemyM
Face the iBand

ugh. diSgustiNg. you're eviL.

And wriTiNg thiS iS faiRly prediCtable.

Says Pibbur who doesn't want an iPad because he's quite happy with his 18.4" laptop and who doesn't want an iPhone (clone) either because the cell phone he uses does all he needs from a phone which is (occasionally) receive phone calls and sms's and everything was much better in the 70s. (the 1970s, that is)

Originally Posted by pibbur
ugh. diSgustiNg. you're eviL.

And wriTiNg thiS iS faiRly prediCtable.

Says Pibbur who doesn't want an iPad because he's quite happy with his 18.4" laptop and who doesn't want an iPhone (clone) either because the cell phone he uses does all he needs from a phone which is (occasionally) receive phone calls and sms's and everything was much better in the 70s. (the 1970s, that is)

With the notable exception of the non-existance of RPGWatch and all games we hold dear and holy!

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan
With the notable exception of the non-existance of RPGWatch and all games we hold dear and holy!

Arrrgh. I had hoped none of you would notice that.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
I don't mind if you call me a troll, but I didn't like when you were being rude to that person in the other thread. I don't think it is an improper use to go through the process of searching for a thread related to the subject you want to talk about. In fact people ressurect old threads all the time if they have something new to add.

As I have now said repeatedly …

I didn't call the person a troll when they resurrected ONE 2+ year old thread to tout their mod project. In fact I agree that it was cool and was feeling supportive.

I didn't call the person a troll when they resurrected TWO 2+ year old threads to tout their mod project.

I didn't call the person a troll when they resurrected THREE 2+ year old threads to tout their mod project.

But when they resurrected FOUR 2+ year old threads to tout their mod project … that was when it got to be too much.

They could easily have posted once, perhaps even sent in a newsbit and gotten front page recognition. As I said I was feeling very supportive at first and if there was just one I would have added it to one my my 'Gear Games News' posts I do every couple of days at Gear Diary.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
Ok we can compare to a lenovo idea pad ( it is not really a good tablet but still ) cost $528 160 GB hard-drive , 2 GB memory… 1.2 ghz processor, it also has a touchpad and comes with windows 7 home premium, you can run or do anything you want… screen is 13.3, and o it has 3 USB's… yeah it is a bit too big for the ipad purpose I know.

Ipad 16 GB hard-drive 256 mb memory cost $754 , you don't get keyboard or camera or anything else in this price.

But is it a fair comparison? Sadly I can't find the exact model, but going off what I can find …
- The IdeaPad has an inferior dual touch screen (at best, most had resistive, which was even worse!), which reviews point out is sluggish and imprecise
- The 1.8GHz version is also rated 'sluggish' … I can only imagine what the crappy 1.2 would be like!
- 2GB on Windows 7? That is pretty much bare minimum! Also, comparing RAM makes no sense since the iOS doesn't execute in RAM like Windows
- Disk space is interesting … apps are smaller and you don't use space for the OS. MS Office takes ~1-2GB, whereas Docs to Go takes ~10MB! And the integration with a desktop means changing out media is as simple as checking or unchecking a box.

As I said, the A4 processor is more powerful than those things running the IdeaPads I could find, Atom or low-end CULV's.

Oh … and the iPad is only 30% more

***BUT***

The IdeaPad is a *REAL* computer, one that you could make your primary computign system without heartache. Heck, I could take my netbook and make it my main system. The iPad is *not* a primary computer … though honestly I think my use case makes it a pretty strong secondary device.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
That's 100% right, and obviously there are a lot of people who did…. I just have a hard time understanding why, and none has given me a signle good reason beyond it is easy to use and I can bring it to bed. Of course that is a typically mainstream opinion….. guess it is not only games being affected

Then you are obviously not the target audience for mobile technology, which is fine, but the "none has given me a signle good reason beyond it is easy to use and I can bring it to bed" could apply to laptops as well.

There is no 'reason' for smartphones, for laptops unless you travel for business, and so on. As was mentioned, it is a luxury choice.

But while seeming to admit that different people have different uses for technology, you continue to make condescending judgments about those who make the choice.

I believe that my lists show how it can be a very useful piece of technology, and after all of these years I don't think I need to demonstrate any credibility in terms of my technical knowledge here.

On my vacation there were quite a few people gushing over their iPads on the plane, watching movies, and playing with fun apps. It does seem more like a luxury toy / entertainment device for jet setters.

Originally Posted by txa1265
It is wrong because GG was right - I'm stupid! I get messed up between Pine Trail and Pineview … here is the description:


And I don't want to seem like I am down on these things - that isn't my intent. I have been a netbook supporter from the start - heck, I had the whole 'Netbook Gamer' review series on GearDiary until I stopped using a netbook.

I *want* Android tablets to succeed - as I said, I live and breath with my Droid phone on a daily basis (heck, I'm tethered to it now on my Alienware since RPGWatch is blocked at work!)

I don't believe the iPad is 'magical. I think that the combination of solid hardware, a 'right-sized' OS and top-notch multi-touch (i.e. not just dual touch) and great apps from 3rd parties makes it a great solution for many - but not all - applications. The Apple A4 is a 'next gen' SOC based on the ARM Cortex A8, which as I say has been shown to be a more powerful solution than the Atom 450 in testing earlier this year.

And again I say that it is very much the 3rd party support that really makes it great - the apps people are making - heck, Documents 2 Go does 90% of what I need from MS Office, and cost $10 rather than $140!

D'Artagnan is right - everyone needs to asses what they NEED and see what works best for them. For personal use I really don't see a netbook or tablet as anything BUT a luxury … because neither can replace a 'real' computer.

I was quoting Apple's marketing when saying the iPad is 'magical'
But concerning the iPad, it is a good product, just not great as so many reviewers say it is. JMHO

As was mentioned, it is a luxury choice.

yes, as a luxury I can totally understand that people want it… that's also why I wrote get it instead of a netbook, which is obviously not what you did since you already have those. That is another major thing I have against it though…… people get something so exspensive just as a luxury extra toy on top of your laptop, tabletop, desktop, iphone, ipod, PSP, DS, XBOX,PS3. Meanwhile people are starving, and the environment get ruined. I know it is not an argument against the IPAD per see, but it is a scary development, people want more and more unecesarry and exspensive luxury.

Not sure they should be compared since one is a tablet and other a netbook with physical keyboard but anyways…

Originally Posted by txa1265
Hmmm … let's see …
- Because it is more powerful than pretty much ANY netbook?

Apple A4 1Ghz 256Mb DDR2 is more powerful than i.e 1.6 GHz Intel Atom N270 with 2048Mb of DDR2 memory? If you claim somthing like that Id like to see som test comparisons to PC netbooks.

Originally Posted by txa1265
- Because any netbook that is comparably powerful (i.e. uses the ION chipset) costs MORE than the iPad!

Samsung NC10 is 370e vs 500e iPad?

Originally Posted by txa1265
- Because it doesn't bog down running more than a couple of apps?

Ive run multiple programs (i.e open office) with nc10 together without it bogging down.

Originally Posted by txa1265
- Because it has instant-on, fast app launching, and state-saves?

All my computers including nc10 have instant on / save-states as long as I dont shut them down but instead put them to sleep. Im not sure what fast app launch is.

Originally Posted by txa1265
- Because it has >2x the battery life of a netbook?

iPad 10 hours vs NC10 11hours > can be extended to like 15-18(?) hours with better battery.

Originally Posted by txa1265
- Because you can watch HD video without the fan spinning out of control, frames dropping, and battery life dropping to less than 2 hours?

Dont know for sure and too lazy to test but Ive never had any problems running any videos with nc10. Im pretty sure it can do HD allthough from 10" screen SD is just fine too.

My netbook has lots of "apps" too. Currently Im playing black crypt and shannara with it.

I always wondered if users feel confined with the fact they have to use Itunes exclusively for their downloads, unless I'm mistaken here.

Im not sure I know anyone who uses iTunes. Nowadays everyone has started to use spotify free/paid. Few still buy CDs/Vinyls.

Originally Posted by k1000
I think not just the iPad, but all tablets (iOS/Android/Win7) are luxury items. You can't do anything with a tablet that you can't do with a Desktop. It's just more concveniet for doing certain things (like web browsing on your couch,…).

I bought netbook mainly to read manuals and run open office i.e d&d character sheets in excel. I can also connect it to internet with my mobilephone. Im very happy with because its small and light. Buying iPad now does seem like luxury I dont really need.

Lasts year Ive kind of lost my interest to the whole techrace anyways. I couldnt even convince myself to buy touchscreen phone since my current phone does everything I want perfectly (like reading rpgwatch while in toilet) and it has great batterylife.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Apple A4 1Ghz 256Mb DDR2 is more powerful than i.e 1.6 GHz Intel Atom N270 with 2048Mb of DDR2 memory? If you claim somthing like that Id like to see som test comparisons to PC netbooks.

Here is something quick for the processor bit

Originally Posted by zakhal
Samsung NC10 is 370e vs 500e iPad?

NC10 = 2008, iPad = 2010?

Originally Posted by zakhal
Ive run multiple programs (i.e open office) with nc10 together without it bogging down.

NC10 is pretty much identical to my Lenovo s10, so while I get plenty of use out of it, running Office and multiple tabs in Firefox … I see a significant performance hit - and so do pretty much all reviews of the 'standard' netbook format.

Originally Posted by zakhal
All my computers including nc10 have instant on / save-states as long as I dont shut them down but instead put them to sleep. Im not sure what fast app launch is.

Or reboot

Originally Posted by zakhal
iPad 10 hours vs NC10 11hours > can be extended to like 15-18(?) hours with better battery.

The NC10 has a 6 hour 'spec', and reviews I saw said that even with the extended battery it got ~4 hours when playing video.

I *can* get 8 hours out of my Lenovo … but not while playing Knights of the Old Republic!

But I get >10 hours on iPad *playing video* … that is ~2.5x the NC 10, and more than 20 for normal usage.

Originally Posted by zakhal
Dont know for sure and too lazy to test but Ive never had any problems running any videos with nc10. Im pretty sure it can do HD allthough from 10" screen SD is just fine too.

Again, SD, 480 p works pretty well, sucking down battery.

Originally Posted by zakhal
My netbook has lots of "apps" too. Currently Im playing black crypt and shannara with it.

Yep, exactly! That is why will never get rid of my PC!

Originally Posted by txa1265
NC10 = 2008, iPad = 2010?

I bought nc10 new 2010 january. The price was pretty much the same as 2 years ago.

Originally Posted by txa1265
NC10 is pretty much identical to my Lenovo s10, so while I get plenty of use out of it, running Office and multiple tabs in Firefox … I see a significant performance hit - and so do pretty much all reviews of the 'standard' netbook format.

Ive found it pretty managable as long as I dont clutter it endlessly like I do with my real pc. The only problem Ive had is autosaving of big excelsheets. Its so slow I had to take it off.

However I did buy windows xp specifically for my netbook after reading how bad vista/w7 works with them!

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
This still doesn't explain why someone would get an IPAD instead of a netbook?

In fact…. what is written above is you get something much more exspensive with much worse software, that you have to activate through your PC and apple control everything you buy….. just confirms how stupid people are I guess At least sales were not as good as expected and made the apple stocks go down… perhaps there is hope for humankind.

I'm with you here. To me, an iPad is basically a restricted netbook. If you don't have a laptop/netbook already, and are in the market for one, I can see how you could buy an iPad, but if you already have a laptop/netbook, there's just no reason to get an iPad.

wow, its hard to keep up with this thread. so far I've gleaned in a quick skim is I'm stupid if I buy one. got it!

When I was considering one, I saw a few things that dissuaded me. For one, the lack of ports. I am constantly using USB and SD card ports, and the Ipad doesnt have them. These are standard issue on a laptop. Not to mention, but I'll mention it anyway of course, I'd like a CD drive with my portable computing device.

The no flash thing is annoying as hell too. Say what you will, sorry - flash is everywhere and it's needed by me a lot when I'm surfing. Just the way it is.

The different models and pricing are annoying as well. I thought these were the good guys, supposed to be laughing at MS and all their myriad versions of Windows. Apple totally nickel-and-dimes the hell out of you for every single bit of networking capability and drive space they can squeeze out of the thing. And the networking probably sucks anyway. I love my iphone 3GS til death do us part, but the bitter truth of the matter is my fiancee's droid smokes it when it comes to surfing the net. I know that's purely anecdotal, but hey I'm just using my personal life's experiences to guide me here above some review online or something.

For me, as a luxury device maybe if I've got money laying around burning a hole in my pocket, sure. If i want to use it like a Kindle at the table or at Starbucks or something while having a coffee. I grant you, it's a sexy device and there's probably some fun to be had with it. I know that I have nearly zero experience with the device. But as serious mobile computing platform that I can depend on, I'm not convinced that for my 700-800$ (im sorry I'd have to get it loaded if I got it) or even the 500$ model and monthly data plan fee I'm going to get anywhere near the functionality and real-world practical usage of what an el cheapo little 400$ laptop will give me.

I've been told that 3G is pointless now due AT&T's lack of an unlimited connection. Not sure how true that is.

I understand that lack of ports might be a trade off as lack of a DVD on a netbook is - but it does have its USB power port.

Here's HP's new Slate - it has an 8.9" screen.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
I've been told that 3G is pointless now due AT&T's lack of an unlimited connection. Not sure how true that is.

I wouldn't get 3G. Heck, even in west-central NY public WiFi is common enough that I have never felt at a loss.

Anyway, I had talked about the comparison between iPad and netbook and how the iPad is faster. Some said 'prove it'. So here is a video I made that shows just how much faster the iPad is than a dual-core netbook - REAL instant on, and fast apps with equivalent functionality.

iPad vs. Netbook

Oh … and I *love* the HP as a netbook - great keyboard, excellent build quality, and so on.