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Default Do you think mankind has reached it's pick?

March 25th, 2011, 04:17
Originally Posted by Tragos View Post
1. Northern Africans are protesting asking for the type of democracy we are bored and disappointed with .
It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
—Winston Churchill
2.North Americans are starting to read and accept Marx , Engels , Mao and the likes
Really. Almost everyone I know is a North American and none are reading any of those let alone "accepting" them.
3.Most movies are remakes , some are just c/p
4.Most new music is same with the past , also includes 1000's of covers
5.Games are recycling the same genres , the same MQs , the same everything
6. Literature , when it was the last time you read something totally out of the ordinary ?
You know I've been hearing that forever and it's no more true now that it has ever been.
7.Technology , we are obsessed in making things smaller but apart from CERN there is not any other major project
You need to get your science news from a science news source and not the popular media.
8.Religious bigotry and bronze age books are coming back in fashion with millions of people rejecting scientific facts overs bullshit .
No more true now than ever before.
9.Despite humanism being like 400 years old we still have trouble tolerating different people because of their skin or sexual affiliation , this was not a problem 2000 years ago…
It wasn't? Your knowledge of history is sorely lacking.
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March 25th, 2011, 05:29
The answer to the question is entirely up to you.
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March 25th, 2011, 06:12
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
As long as you don't return people from Mars, it wouldn't be that hard. The hardest problem to overcome is the radiation, enroute and on-site.
So you want people to stay on Mars ? For how long ?
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March 25th, 2011, 07:36
No, I don't WANT them to stay. But there are a lot of people who want the opportunity to become colonists, and sacrifice a trip home!
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March 25th, 2011, 13:33
That would not be allowed by ethics boards in western countries. Not only that, you seem to believe a colony on Mars is so easy to make ? You would need tons of construction gear that can withstand the Martian atmosphere, temperatures and so on.

Again, assuming the technology exists, this would cost a massive fortune. According to wiki, current estimates for a first manned mission to Mars would be 2030 at the very least. Construction of a basic colony on the moon won't be before 2020. Expect at least a 10 year delay in both…
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March 25th, 2011, 13:44
What is possible, and what is feasible is two entirely different discussions.

Technically it would be possible to do it today. We have all technology necessary, however the failure % would be fairly high and costs would be very high, so it is not feasible to do it today.
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March 25th, 2011, 14:07
Where do you guys keep coming up with the idea that we have that technology right now?
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March 25th, 2011, 14:14
One of my good friends works for NASA. He's done a bunch of different things, but I think the peak was being one of the three Directors of the Mission Evaluation Room (IE the people whose job it is to fix anything that goes wrong during a flight).

We've discussed it many times and he agrees that the technology more or less exists. Or at least the pieces of it does. We have the ability to launch into orbit. We have the ability to propel a spacecraft to Mars (and back if we wanted to). We have the ability to land it (getting back off the planet is problematic, though technically feasible with current technology).

We have the ability to shield the people there from the radiation, and keep the temperature in the living areas at reasonable levels. We already do this on the space station and in the shuttles.

We even have the technology to grow food in green houses in such an environment.

However, we've never put it all together, it would still require regular restocking missions as it would not be self-sufficient, and the cost makes anything large enough to have the ability to become self-sufficient not feasible at all.
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March 25th, 2011, 14:29
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Where do you guys keep coming up with the idea that we have that technology right now?
Maybe this is semantic? Do we have the technology as in in "ready to fly with existing hardware any time we want"? No. But in the sense of "having all the necessary know-how and materials so we could call in a planning comission tomorrow and have launch in 5-10 years" - If we'd put the necessary financial and personal resources behind it, I'd say very probably yes.
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March 25th, 2011, 21:08
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
That would not be allowed by ethics boards in western countries. Not only that, you seem to believe a colony on Mars is so easy to make ? You would need tons of construction gear that can withstand the Martian atmosphere, temperatures and so on.
Ethics boards? What are you referring to? I know of no such thing. Besides it's not unethical if people want to do it, and choose to do it knowing all the risks.

i didn;t say it was easy, but it certainly possible. Underground dwellings would be easier, rather than trying to build protective structures above ground.

A colony could be self-sufficent. There is water, and from water you can get oxygen. Growing food would be possible as well.
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March 26th, 2011, 04:42
That's not true at all. It's a crime to commit suicide in many countries for one easy example.

Now you're even talking about drilling into Mars' ground. How much equipment do you even want to send there at the same time. This would either require several rockets to fly there or one giant spaceship.

Sending lots of rockets would be feasible but would take :
1. Several years to build each one of them
2. Several years to send each one of them

So before 2020 you haven't even got all the equipment to go to Mars.

3. Add to that the delays in construction and the delays in sending the rockets due to bad weather conditions and so on…

Now we're in 2025. So basically, you're estimate is five years before the governments' estimates, EXCEPT that you're expecting a colony built there instead of a first manned flight there.

So no. It's not as feasible as you expect it to be.
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March 26th, 2011, 05:28
You're making alot of poor assumptions.

Why would you need drilling equipment?

Why would people be comitting suicide?
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March 26th, 2011, 05:29
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
That's not true at all. It's a crime to commit suicide in many countries for one easy example.
I'm sure someone who's about to commit suicide is worried about the consequences.
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March 26th, 2011, 05:38
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
You're making alot of poor assumptions.

Why would you need drilling equipment?

Why would people be comitting suicide?
Didn't you say you wanted to go underground ? How do you expect them to do that ? With a shovel ?

They wouldn't be committing suicide, I was referring to the part where you said:
Ethics boards? What are you referring to? I know of no such thing. Besides it's not unethical if people want to do it, and choose to do it knowing all the risks.
Some things ARE unethical even if people want to do it and know all the risks.

It is unethical to send people somewhere where they will have no hope of return and thus will not be allowed by an ethics board.

If the plan to send people to the moon was with no hope for return they would not have done it, not in the US.
Maybe in Sovyet Russia they would…

I'm sure someone who's about to commit suicide is worried about the consequences.
I know… That wasn't my point though. But judging from the smiley I think you knew that.
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March 26th, 2011, 06:01
It is not unethical if they choose they want to colonize and become permanent Martians. And there are no "ethics boards".

Regarding underground dwellings, don't you think there may be caves on Mars?
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March 26th, 2011, 09:09
Caves are generally formed by water which appears to be lacking on Mars!!
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March 26th, 2011, 11:40
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
It is not unethical if they choose they want to colonize and become permanent Martians. And there are no "ethics boards".

Regarding underground dwellings, don't you think there may be caves on Mars?
I don't think you understand the whole thing here is you're sending people out in space with no hope of return. That is the concept. Them wanting to do it is great. Them wanting to come back is a possibility, them coming back might not be.
And there are ethics boards, even if sometimes they might not be called so.
They might not even be boards of people, but just one person. It might be the whole of the American people or whatever country. But THERE ARE ethics boards !

http://www.google.com/search?q=ethics+board

Google is your friend and you'd see that most states in the US have ethics board by just googling ethics board. So you saying :
And there are no "ethics boards".
Just tells me you have no idea what you're talking about and are not willing to listen to much else apparently…


Even if there are caves. You actually believe it's easy to walk in any cave… Have you ever been inside a cave ? Some of them are very dangerous and going in them can get you trapped very easily.
You suggest sending a team of astronauts and billions worth of gear inside a cave that might collapse at any point and killing the whole expedition since there would be no rescue team on Mars, you know ?

Please, just think this through …
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March 26th, 2011, 14:47
Has mankind reached it's peak? I could ask if already has reached the bottom of the barrel? It always depends from the angle you are watching. Yet, i believe mankind has still more to give. For the best and for the worst.
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March 26th, 2011, 15:12
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
I have full confidence Mother Nature will keep us in check. Whether famine, disease, or disaster, there's just too many ways that have nothing to do with man's input to kill off fair numbers of us in short order. Tack on the joys of war (imagine what an extended battle between China and India would do to the global population even if it stays conventional) and we shouldn't have too much to worry about.

Welcome to the future…
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March 26th, 2011, 19:54
Pladio, those are ethic boards for govenrment employees like politicians who violate rules for of conflict interest, not suicide.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this.
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