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Default Things that you don't like to see in a CRPG

June 12th, 2011, 17:09
I certainly wouldn't miss achievements if I never saw them again. It's primarily a console aspect, and we normally only see them in cross-platform games anyways. They should at least include an option to disable them.
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June 12th, 2011, 17:20
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Achievements could be used to guide people, to make sure that you know that there is more to see in the game, and to hint at what needs to be done in order to see it, without anyone actually having to straight up tell you what you have to do in game.
I disagree and think the story and npc interaction should handle that. With achievements you get a laundry list of things to do, with additional spoilers.
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June 12th, 2011, 18:01
Endless, round-based combat (as in vanilla Wiz8).
Grinding as a primary method of racking up game time.
Story-locked doors (but that goes for other types of games as well).
Bugs (unless they're used as ambience, friends or enemies).
Being forced to do things I (as a player) find offensive.
Imoen and Anomen .
Schlorks (as in: you come to a t-junction and choose the left way. Hours later, you're eaten by a Schlork because going left was the wrong decision … you had no clue back then, but there's nothing you can do about it).
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June 12th, 2011, 18:10
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
.
Schlorks (as in: you come to a t-junction and choose the left way. Hours later, you're eaten by a Schlork because going left was the wrong decision … you had no clue back then, but there's nothing you can do about it).
On a somewhat similar note, I hate when you need a seemingly run of the mill item from earlier in the game for a quest much later in the game, particularly when you are blocked from returning to previous areas and inventory is very limited. Even if the quest is optional, it's still annoying. How the hell was I supposed to know I would need that later on? This sort of nonsense encourages hoarding and I've seen it done many times.
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June 12th, 2011, 18:32
Originally Posted by hishadow View Post
I've got another one: achievements (not to be confused with statistics)
Originally Posted by hishadow View Post
I disagree and think the story and npc interaction should handle that. With achievements you get a laundry list of things to do, with additional spoilers.
But during a single playthrough, you will only see parts of the game, in a game with branching story paths. Achievements will give people an incentive to explore the other paths, paths that they might have missed the first time.

NPCs/in game texts and such should give people what they need to find these things, but first you need to find the NPCs. Achievements can be used to inform people about the existence of these NPCs/story branches. They should of course be vague enough as to not spoil anything of importance.

On a somewhat similar note, I hate when you need a seemingly run of the mill item from earlier in the game for a quest much later in the game, particularly when you are blocked from returning to previous areas and inventory is very limited. Even if the quest is optional, it's still annoying. How the hell was I supposed to know I would need that later on? This sort of nonsense encourages hoarding and I've seen it done many times.
As bad as it is in many CRPGs, it is even worse in many older adventure games. AGs from the 80's can be a real pain to play due to this.
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June 12th, 2011, 18:45
Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
But during a single playthrough, you will only see parts of the game, in a game with branching story paths. Achievements will give people an incentive to explore the other paths, paths that they might have missed the first time.
Huh? You shouldn't need achievements as incentive to explore other paths.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the kind of achievements that suddenly pop up on your screen because you collected X amount of this, or killed X amount of that.
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June 12th, 2011, 19:05
1. Greetings. At least out-of-context greetings, like NPC's saying "why do you bother me" or similar things when you're returning after doing something they asked you to do. Another "cute" example is the wow-gnomes' "My, you're a tall one" when your character is just as gnomish.

2. Inconsistencies. NPC's referring to problems you've already taken care of. At least locally they should know what has happened. It's acceptable if people far away are not updated, but your neighbours should know. One glaring and comical example is in that very-buggy-mm-game-dte-won't-mention, where a person dying as part of the story in one town, is still alive and kicking in his hometown.

3. Über consistency. Like in Oblivion where every guard in the whole wide world knows about you crime the minute you commit it.

4. Ûber realism. Now, this is debatable. Some people prefer that your characters should for instance have to eat and sleep. I'm not so sure about that. Where should we draw the line? Should we have to pee? In LOTRO, if you want to harvest ore from a mine you need to not only have a mining pick in your inventory, you also need to equip it. So, if you gather both wood and ore, you constantly have to switch between your wood cutting axe and your mining pick. To me that's just annoying, it doesn't add to the gameplay in any way.

OTOH, if I'm tasked with killing a couple of birds for their feathers, I expect my targets to have … feathers. In general birds do. So, when 90% of them don't, it feels a bit strange.

5. Artificial constraints. Once again, I use LOTRO as an example (a game I in most respects am very happy with). You don't select crafting/gathering professions freely, in stead you choose vocations, consisting of three fixed professions. So your historian has scholarship (gathering ancient texts, discovering recipes) and farming. And weaponsmith!???. Your tinker has prospecting and jewelcrafting, which is all ok. But why does he/she also have to spend time farming? I know this is done to encourage cooperation between players, but it is an artificial and not very logical constraint. To me.
Last edited by pibbur; June 12th, 2011 at 19:17.

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June 12th, 2011, 21:22
1) mandatory arcade sequences and its cousin QTE
QTEs are ruining my Witcher 2 play time

2) End bosses
I understand a game end boss (don't like them though) but it seems now there is an end boss for just about every important story sequence. It's almost like I'm playing an Nintendo 64 game from the 80s/90s

3) Lack of choice of gender
My gaming time is so much more pleasant looking at the back side of my female avatar.

4) Inventory limits
Div Div 2 probably handled this the best when they introduced a huge storage chest in mid game. Fallout usually handles inventory limits well.

5) Fake game world walls
because they designed the game area only so-big, they have to put up obstacles to prevent you from wandering further. If an ocean, steep cliff face, or rundown- multistory building is impeding your path, that's one thing. But to have some brush, picket fence or fallen logs block your way make no sense
Last edited by Dajjer; June 13th, 2011 at 06:45.
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June 12th, 2011, 22:46
- end boss fights turned into an arena (last seen at the very last fight of the Dungeon Siege III demo) by having the way you came in being blocked by … whatever.

- close combat being stronger than other kinds of combat

- the need to do a special "character biuld" in order to be successful within the whole game (aka power-gaming) - especially when no-one tells the player (or it is just expected from the player to already know it, because a) it's in the hugely popular rules system or b) "everyone does it [with this type of games] so") on what to concentrate on (in terms of skills, feats, etc.)
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June 12th, 2011, 22:52
Originally Posted by pibbur View Post
4. Ûber realism. Now, this is debatable. Some people prefer that your characters should for instance have to eat and sleep. I'm not so sure about that. Where should we draw the line? Should we have to pee? In LOTRO, if you want to harvest ore from a mine you need to not only have a mining pick in your inventory, you also need to equip it. So, if you gather both wood and ore, you constantly have to switch between your wood cutting axe and your mining pick. To me that's just annoying, it doesn't add to the gameplay in any way.
I like realism when it's implemented properly. I agree having to manually feed characters (as you have to in games like U7) is not something I like doing.

I do however like the idea that your characters must eat and drink. This adds to the things to remember to do when preparing for a long adventure away from towns. But I'd rather the game simply checks for food and drink and consumes items automatically (and telling you this has happened with an on-screen message).

I also like the idea that certain tools are required for harvesting materials such as wood or ore. But I'd rather the game just automatically equip the required tool when you perform the harvesting action and then replace the tool with whatever weapon you had equipped last when you are done.

I've always found it odd with games where a pick-axe suddenly appears from out of my pocket when I go to mine some ore, but I don't actually have a pick-axe.

So for me, realism can be a good thing, but implementation of realism shouldn't become a tiresom drill of clicks, button mashing, or UI exploring.
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June 12th, 2011, 23:50
I think achievements are a very good feature for non-RPG games. I think they're specially good for simulations and strategy games like Europa Universalis, Civilization, etc. Basically games where you don't follow a story.
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June 13th, 2011, 00:28
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
I like realism when it's implemented properly. I agree having to manually feed characters (as you have to in games like U7) is not something I like doing.

I do however like the idea that your characters must eat and drink. This adds to the things to remember to do when preparing for a long adventure away from towns. But I'd rather the game simply checks for food and drink and consumes items automatically (and telling you this has happened with an on-screen message).
If done this way, it's ok.
I also like the idea that certain tools are required for harvesting materials such as wood or ore. But I'd rather the game just automatically equip the required tool when you perform the harvesting action and then replace the tool with whatever weapon you had equipped last when you are done.

I agree, that's how I want it (my post was a bit unclear).
So for me, realism can be a good thing, but implementation of realism shouldn't become a tiresom drill of clicks, button mashing, or UI exploring.
Amen.

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June 13th, 2011, 02:43
Quest Markers. You never saw these years ago, but today it is pretty much a staple. They are particularly obnoxious when you can't turn them off and when dialog and/or context clues do not naturally nudge you in the direction of where you need to go. I have been noticing games getting lazy and having quests go in directions that in no way would you be able to figure out without relying on the quest markers when a line or two of dialog would easily provide a hint to where to go next without having to see a big red x on your map.
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June 13th, 2011, 03:41
a blinking press start.

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June 13th, 2011, 08:26
i hate it when you mouse over an item and it doesnt compare it to your currently equipped item. I'll let it slide for loot on the ground, but I start grinding my teeth if it's in my inventory or at a merchant and I cannot instantly compare the two right then and there. I become further annoyed if I have to go completely out of the shop screen and to another screen to view my equipped item, then have to re-greet the merchant to get back to the shop. I've gone completely apeshit and come totally unglued when getting finally back to the shop screen after all that, and suddenly forgetting a particular stat or something on the item i just went and looked it. It makes me mad as hell right now just thinking about it.

I also dont like having to unequip items before i can sell them. Just show them in my list of stuff, and I'll take off the gauntlet if I wish to sell it. Isnt that easy?

If a player is going to spend a significant part of a game as an extremely driven used garment salesman and accountant, the least the developers can do is make this mundane task as quick and easy as possible.
Last edited by xSamhainx; June 13th, 2011 at 08:48.
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June 13th, 2011, 09:47
Originally Posted by Dajjer View Post
1) mandatory arcade sequences and its cousin QTE
QTEs are ruining my Witcher 2 play time
I give up. What does, 'QTE' stand for?
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June 13th, 2011, 10:12
I despise endless mobs respawns in a singleplayer RPG.
In multiplayer RPG this cannot be avoided (unless in dungeons) but MMOs generally have low IQ needed quests so I tend not to play them at all.

Everything else… I can live with.
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June 13th, 2011, 10:25
QTE is Quick Time Event.

Basically, buttons or keys flash on the screen, and you must respond ASAP by hitting the appropriate keys. If you do, the cut scene plays out w/ your character winning whatever challenge he encountered. If not, you fail and oftentimes die.

They can replace things from suspenseful moments that there are no set controls for in the game (like your character falling, then just barely hanging from a rooftop ledge and pulling themselves up) to entire boss fights. I dont like them either.
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June 13th, 2011, 10:26
Ahhh, too slow (just tried to answer the QTE question).

Another dislike: strange character balance. As in, my char needs to hide from gnats to avoid being killed for most of the game - and by passing some level s/he suddenly is the Übermensch and cannot be scratched by a dragon (think of 'Gothic', even though I really liked most of those games).
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June 13th, 2011, 11:01
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
I despise endless mobs respawns in a singleplayer RPG.
In multiplayer RPG this cannot be avoided (unless in dungeons) but MMOs generally have low IQ needed quests so I tend not to play them at all.

Everything else… I can live with.
Respawning was particularly annoying in Sacred 1. Like in many other games, you didn't get any xp from killing lower level mobs, but still they tried to attack you. You could outrun most of them, yay!, but not the ones throwing webs at you, not-so-yay!. So you ended up in completly useless fights. Time consuming because once you stopped, waves upon waves of suicidal enemies came at you.

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