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Things that you don't like to see in a CRPG
June 13th, 2011, 16:27
I've never had QTEs so far (didn't play the games which included them, I guess), but what I hear from them it's something I'd ABSOLUTELY hate.
Except for pure action-RPGs - I could see some sense in using QTEs in them.
Except for pure action-RPGs - I could see some sense in using QTEs in them.
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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
June 13th, 2011, 16:32
Originally Posted by pibburUber realism is one of mine too. Mine is more on the story arc side though. As an example, in U5:Lazarus, if you talk to the mayor of Yew before talking to the resistance, you screw yourself. You either end up joining the oppression (evil) or get thrown in jail and can never fully join the resistance, because you can never convince the mayor to let you join the oppression after the resistance wants you to.
4. Ûber realism. Now, this is debatable. Some people prefer that your characters should for instance have to eat and sleep. I'm not so sure about that. Where should we draw the line? Should we have to pee? In LOTRO, if you want to harvest ore from a mine you need to not only have a mining pick in your inventory, you also need to equip it. So, if you gather both wood and ore, you constantly have to switch between your wood cutting axe and your mining pick. To me that's just annoying, it
doesn't add to the gameplay in any way.
That's probably realistic, but it isn't much fun. Again I find user mods to be the worst at being uber realistic.
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---------------------------------
"Ya'll can go to HELL! I'm-a-goin' to TEXAS!"
- Davy Crockett
---------------------------------
"Ya'll can go to HELL! I'm-a-goin' to TEXAS!"
- Davy Crockett
June 13th, 2011, 18:18
Another one for me is when you player character does or says something you did not choose to say or do at all. I don't mean cut scenes, I mean when you are given a choice and what's said or done and the result is not at all reflective of the choice you were given, Dragon Age II was really bad about this, or when something happens through dialogue that really should have been a choice. I remember a couple of times in the Witcher talking to some women and suddenly Geralt is having sex with her without any dialogue prompt to choose that.
Last edited by Motoki; June 13th, 2011 at 21:13.
Keeper of the Watch
June 13th, 2011, 19:25
Originally Posted by MotokiI agree.
Another one for me is when you player character does or says something you did not choose to say or do at all.
I had this very problem with
- the demo of Dragon Age 2
- the demo of Dungeon Siege III
The sentence I was supposed to chose was sometimes *nothing* like I had expected it to be.
--
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
June 13th, 2011, 20:08
Originally Posted by pibburActions ending with automatic success (used to) have little gameplay value. Hunger and sleep and the associated effects are usually not compatible with small worlds (as most so called RPGs are) hence an irrealistic introduction of them in the gameworld.
4. Ûber realism. Now, this is debatable. Some people prefer that your characters should for instance have to eat and sleep. I'm not so sure about that. Where should we draw the line? Should we have to pee?
Most of the times, it does not end in uberrealism but uber irrealism.
In a gameworld where the PC is never more than one ingame day away from a source of food, in a world where food is never scarce, in a world money for food is not an issue, feeding is an automatic success every time.
And to give weight to the action of feeding, irrealistic effects to not feeding oneself for six hours are to be introduced. PCs losing 50 pc of their health, strength or anything like that, effects that are irrealistic by their magnitude and nature.
The line has to be drawn anytime the actions are most of the times concluded as automatic successes. As it leads to bend phenomena like hunger and their effects irrealistically to introduce them in a gameworld.
Hunger, thirst can no matter in a realistic way in a combat game if the PC is not endangered by being shut from a food source for two or three days.
Peeing is the same. For a PC roaming the wilderness, it is an automatic success most of the times.
SasqWatch
June 13th, 2011, 20:19
I'd say that realism should stop when either it adds nothing to the game experience or it actually takes away from it. A good example, IMO, is food. Having your character require food isn't necessarily bad, or good, it's how you implement it.
If it is something that is generally so easily accessible, that you don't have to worry about it, until all of the sudden, it's impossible to find and hence it becomes frustrating (as an example food is everywhere in the world, but there is some monster that steals all your food halfway through a dungeon), then that's bad. But having it as another tactical aspect, can be good.
I fondly remember planning out my dungeon excursions in the Ultima's. You'd have to figure out how many regents you thought you'd need, how many potions, how much food (I don't remember if ammo was a concern in the early ones, but I know it was in VI and VII). Did I have enough gold for everything? Did I need to go explore somewhere else first and gather loot?
However, in both U5:L and U6: P, its so easy to find food, pretty much from the second you enter the game, its completely pointless.
If it is something that is generally so easily accessible, that you don't have to worry about it, until all of the sudden, it's impossible to find and hence it becomes frustrating (as an example food is everywhere in the world, but there is some monster that steals all your food halfway through a dungeon), then that's bad. But having it as another tactical aspect, can be good.
I fondly remember planning out my dungeon excursions in the Ultima's. You'd have to figure out how many regents you thought you'd need, how many potions, how much food (I don't remember if ammo was a concern in the early ones, but I know it was in VI and VII). Did I have enough gold for everything? Did I need to go explore somewhere else first and gather loot?
However, in both U5:L and U6: P, its so easy to find food, pretty much from the second you enter the game, its completely pointless.
--
---------------------------------
"Ya'll can go to HELL! I'm-a-goin' to TEXAS!"
- Davy Crockett
---------------------------------
"Ya'll can go to HELL! I'm-a-goin' to TEXAS!"
- Davy Crockett
June 13th, 2011, 20:37
Originally Posted by pibburExactly!!!!!
Respawning was particularly annoying in Sacred 1. Like in many other games, you didn't get any xp from killing lower level mobs, but still they tried to attack you. You could outrun most of them, yay!, but not the ones throwing webs at you, not-so-yay!. So you ended up in completly useless fights. Time consuming because once you stopped, waves upon waves of suicidal enemies came at you.
Why do they have you fight them if they are not worth giving you experience points. This is where they can take a lesson from the early NES games. At some point you are so powerful, the baddies just run away from you. That is a beautiful solution, no experience points but no wasted time fighting either. Additionally, it makes sense for the lessor monsters to run aways from your awesomeness.
June 13th, 2011, 23:29
This respawn behaviour in Sacred I was introduced only a bit later via a patch, if I recall it correctly.
But it is almost too long since I've played it …
But it is almost too long since I've played it …
--
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
June 14th, 2011, 00:10
Yeah, excessive respawn can be a real downer. That was a major complaint for me recently when playing Borderlands.
June 14th, 2011, 01:11
Consensus! - Respawning is first on my annoyance list, too.
Second, is inventory limitations/fiddling (gui space or weight)
And more generally, repetitive, tedious gameplay
For example -
- Lots of back and forth
- Lots of long loading screens between areas
- Lots of similar battles
Second, is inventory limitations/fiddling (gui space or weight)
And more generally, repetitive, tedious gameplay
For example -
- Lots of back and forth
- Lots of long loading screens between areas
- Lots of similar battles
June 14th, 2011, 02:01
- Turns , turns are gay
- Linearity , i want my choices to count
- Too much combat
- Parties , parties are boring
- Static world , i hate to be forced into a situation because the game says so
- Stereotypical characters
- Idiotic "RPG features" like cooking food and shit
- Not enough lore
- Not believable world / culture
- Black/white approach , nothing is fundamentally good or evil
- Smartass comments by my own character
- Kids, specially those you can not slaughter
- Political correctness
- Sexual cutscenes
- Difficulty, any game that requires reloading more than 5 times is not for me, if i lose a quest then i just lost a quest it is not the end of the world
-Having to kill animals (they can put kids instead)
- Not enough gore
- No thieving , murdering, raping, pillaging , stealing from the poor, beating the weak for fun ; i want to play the bad guy
- Stupid music , anything else than death/pagan metal is stupid
- Linearity , i want my choices to count
- Too much combat
- Parties , parties are boring
- Static world , i hate to be forced into a situation because the game says so
- Stereotypical characters
- Idiotic "RPG features" like cooking food and shit
- Not enough lore
- Not believable world / culture
- Black/white approach , nothing is fundamentally good or evil
- Smartass comments by my own character
- Kids, specially those you can not slaughter
- Political correctness
- Sexual cutscenes
- Difficulty, any game that requires reloading more than 5 times is not for me, if i lose a quest then i just lost a quest it is not the end of the world
-Having to kill animals (they can put kids instead)
- Not enough gore
- No thieving , murdering, raping, pillaging , stealing from the poor, beating the weak for fun ; i want to play the bad guy
- Stupid music , anything else than death/pagan metal is stupid
June 14th, 2011, 05:12
Originally Posted by ThrasherYou know, I generally dislike fast travel and in theory like the idea of walking between locations better. In practice most RPGs just make it tedious and uninteresting. Too much back and forth between the same locations, uninteresting landscape, I'm conveniently the only one ever on the roads, etc.
And more generally, repetitive, tedious gameplay
For example -
- Lots of back and forth
Keeper of the Watch
June 14th, 2011, 05:24
The first few times in an unchanging landscape is OK.
After about the 5th time, I'm over it.
After about the 5th time, I'm over it.
June 14th, 2011, 09:19
Originally Posted by DajjerAt least they should stop paying attention to you. But it's even better if they flee (for a short distance).
Exactly!!!!!
Why do they have you fight them if they are not worth giving you experience points. This is where they can take a lesson from the early NES games. At some point you are so powerful, the baddies just run away from you. That is a beautiful solution, no experience points but no wasted time fighting either. Additionally, it makes sense for the lessor monsters to run aways from your awesomeness.
Guest
June 14th, 2011, 10:59
Streamlining based on maximising profit, instead of improving the game.
Guest
June 14th, 2011, 11:13
Boss fights. In the sense of the classical arcade boss that requires a special gimmicky approach that has little or nothing to do with your usual gameplay. I don't mind some twist, or a special way to use the environment, but I really don't like if it comes down to a "one-time minigame" - recent example: Risen (otherwise a great game!).
Illogical locations. I like my dungeons to make sense to a certain degree at least. why were they built, what purpose did they serve, how did the monsters get there? Most games are really bad at this, making dungeons more of a shooting gallery than a real place. Games that did it well: Arx Fatalis, Gothic.
Illogical locations. I like my dungeons to make sense to a certain degree at least. why were they built, what purpose did they serve, how did the monsters get there? Most games are really bad at this, making dungeons more of a shooting gallery than a real place. Games that did it well: Arx Fatalis, Gothic.
June 14th, 2011, 11:30
Originally Posted by TragosInteresting.
- Stupid music , anything else than death/pagan metal is stupid
So far I've almost only heard from Germans they want especially this kind of music in RPGs only.
It's almost a local phenomenon to me.
And besides - whereas the rather bigger consensus here is about things that rather tend disrupt the "gaming experience" - this is a statement towards a special music direction - which is in my opinion rather a matter of taste than on things that *really* disturb games.
That's my own opinion.
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhanI have a personal case of these "illogical places" : Just look at Dungeon Siege 1 : If people wanted to go through Ehb, then they'd have to go through ALL of this way - There just don't exist any side-paths, in the hole kingdom.
Illogical locations. I like my dungeons to make sense to a certain degree at least. why were they built, what purpose did they serve, how did the monsters get there? Most games are really bad at this, making dungeons more of a shooting gallery than a real place. Games that did it well: Arx Fatalis, Gothic.
What I mean with it are travelling routes EVERYONE must take which are nothing but giant tubes - "tube-levels", so to say.
This is what I hate, too (from my perspective of an "explorer" type of player).
--
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
June 15th, 2011, 11:06
1) I hate the division between primary and secondary quests - it makes game predictable, linear and boring - in some older games there were ones that seemed to be non-existant, but in result they could open endings or even be essential for completing the game.
2) I don't like to have too much information about a quest. If someone tells me to find a book for him, and he doesn't know where to find it, why am I shown the exact person I need to ask about that book?! So if I am told to find I really want to find, not to just go from one marker to another.
3) Linearity - linear evels are boring. Example is level structure in Mass Effect: Corridor - Battle - Dialog - Battle - Corridor - …
4) Comes from the third - I don't like to be pulled in the right direction - I don't want to see remarks like "Look for survivors" when I enter the razed castle.
5) Auto-leveling - It's stupid to enter Oblivion with first-level character and return victorius. How they could destroy the whole city if theyt can be defeated by apprentice?
6) I don't like quest-locked doors and areas - I want to be able to go where I want or where I am able to, and not where I am told to go (exception is chapter-based games - like NWN)
There are several other things I don't like, but they are mostly just not made properly.
2) I don't like to have too much information about a quest. If someone tells me to find a book for him, and he doesn't know where to find it, why am I shown the exact person I need to ask about that book?! So if I am told to find I really want to find, not to just go from one marker to another.
3) Linearity - linear evels are boring. Example is level structure in Mass Effect: Corridor - Battle - Dialog - Battle - Corridor - …
4) Comes from the third - I don't like to be pulled in the right direction - I don't want to see remarks like "Look for survivors" when I enter the razed castle.
5) Auto-leveling - It's stupid to enter Oblivion with first-level character and return victorius. How they could destroy the whole city if theyt can be defeated by apprentice?
6) I don't like quest-locked doors and areas - I want to be able to go where I want or where I am able to, and not where I am told to go (exception is chapter-based games - like NWN)
There are several other things I don't like, but they are mostly just not made properly.
Traveler
June 16th, 2011, 23:21
Got another one: random dungeons. A big reason why I don't play games like Torchlight. I prefer handcrafted to procedurally generated content.
Level N+1
June 17th, 2011, 22:24
When it comes to respawn, I think it can work in certain games, namely the ones that are not too monster rich in the first place, and where you are supposed to visit the same area multiple times (like the TES games), and in these instances, leveled spawn feels like a necessary evil. You don't want to fight giant rats when you are at level 40, they will just be a speed bump, that might as well not be there, but if the game world is totally devoid of creatures after a while, that might also pull you out of the immersion. But creatures should not level with you, new and more powerful creatures should appear (so at first you might face rats, but later on you face daedroths). Monsters should only show up where it makes sense though, and ideally wildlife should behave in a realistic way, so that wolves, deers, elks & badgers don't just have to disappear, just because you have become more powerful.
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