Legend of Grimrock - Website, Screens

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I'm GENUINELY surprised that games like this get so much attention - based on nothing but it being indie stuff.

Well, that's bullshit. If a bigger company were making an avowed DM/MM/Wiz clone then people who like that sort of game would be excited too.

But I should know better than to get involved in yet another DArtagnan spam fest.

Originally Posted by Shagnak
Well, that's bullshit. If a bigger company were making an avowed DM/MM/Wiz clone then people who like that sort of game would be excited too.

But I should know better than to get involved in yet another DArtagnan spam fest.

You asked for it!!!!



In any case, if Bio/Beth announced a Smartphone/PC Dungeon Master clone - I'd be 100% certain it would be a shallow timewaster.

In this case, I'm only 50% certain - so it's not all bad.

Originally Posted by JDR13
You don't have to be enlightened to see the obvious.

Does that mean you're not enlightened?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan

They certainly seem talented in terms of art - but in my experience, that just means less focus on gameplay - as they're talking about a "few months". What experience do they have developing games, though? Not sure I see that anywhere.

There's a team description there -> http://www.grimrock.net/2011/07/14/t…st-human-team/

Which mentions game industry credentials.

Dangit, more competition

Originally Posted by Charles-cgr
There's a team description there -> http://www.grimrock.net/2011/07/14/t…st-human-team/

Which mentions game industry credentials.

Dangit, more competition

Competition?

Also, I read their credentials. None of them seem to have any game design experience.

If there was real money to be made in turn based RPGs these days you better believe that EA would be cranking them out like crazy and shoving them in everyone's faces.

Define "Real." But yes, exactly. Pro indies need to make money to survive. But the question is the size of the audience. It is not worth it for EA to sell wargames or old-school RPGs or graphic adventure games that don't sell even 10,000 copies. But a small indie company - if they scope the game and price it appropriately - can and will make a business case that works out of it.

It's only a problem if gamers demand a game with AAA production values for something that cannot possibly sell AAA numbers. That's why indies try to distinguish what they do - it allows the audience to reset their expectations and take the game for what it is, versus what the major publishers' marketing departments say a game should be.

But there are still a lot of sucky indie games out there (I've played many!). "Indie" isn't an excuse there. But there's a difference between quality and high-end production values.

Also, I read their credentials. None of them seem to have any game design experience.

Anybody who has been significantly involved in the dev process for a shipped, real-world commercial title (mainstream, indie, or otherwise) is often going to have more game design experience than any gamer, journalist, critic, or even any graduate from a game design school out there. Now, that doesn't prove they're particularly good at it (the longer I've been at it, the more I know how much I suck at it myself), but I'd not bias my opinion against them because they don't have "designer" next to their name.

In fact, these days I might be biased the opposite way. I've known several outstanding game designers, new and old, but I also know a lot of guys with that job description who really couldn't do anything more than try to emulate their favorite games, with little comprehension about what makes them tick. I don't think they are either in the minority or that their ranks are shrinking.

Less posting, more developing! Somebody chain the coyote to his pc

That's my problem, I've been chained to it all day, only let out of my cage for a couple of hours. I estimated a feature that would only take me around 3 hours which has instead taken all day…

Anybody who has been significantly involved in the dev process for a shipped, real-world commercial title (mainstream, indie, or otherwise) is often going to have more game design experience than any gamer, journalist, critic, or even any graduate from a game design school out there. Now, that doesn't prove they're particularly good at it (the longer I've been at it, the more I know how much I suck at it myself), but I'd not bias my opinion against them because they don't have "designer" next to their name.

That's an assumption I'm not prepared to make. Also, there's nothing to suggest I'm "biased against" - simply because I don't automatically assume they understand game design and want to create a strong one. There's zero basis for such an assumption.

I have no way of knowing what their design experience is - except to look at their credentials. Now, by looking at the industry - I see a zillion AAA designers who either can't design worth shit - or don't care about it, or CAN'T care about it.

So, even if they WERE game designers - it wouldn't be much comfort.

I have to see what they intend to do, before I can start to get excited. Again, if they want to finish this within a few months - I doubt we'll get a deep/complex game design. Because such things aren't trivial and they require a passion for the concept of a deep/complex game. For a game that's supposed to be done soon, I think it's pretty worrying when the developers can't answer a single question related to design, and instead say something like "we really don't know, but we do intend to have something good."

That suggests, to me anyway, that they expect the design process to be trivial or non-vital.

Absolutely nothing I've seen from them tells me they want to create a deep or complex game.

They seem to be extremely focused on a game that looks professional and non-indie - which makes a lot of sense. Because a game like this with beautiful graphics is bound to sell like hot-cakes.

Why? I have no idea. But the level of support based on visuals alone is staggering. I find that pretty sad, personally. That's probably because I think the indie segment is ideal for deep and complex games, and that's why I'd hope people would care about that before they started caring about visuals.

Still, I hope I'm wrong - and I hope we get a reasonably deep game. In which case, I'd be more than happy to admit my mistake - and give my support to these guys.

I still read every time I look at the headline "Legend Of Gimmick" !

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I still read every time I look at the headline "Legend Of Gimmick" !

Heh, well, to be fair - it doesn't come off as a gimmicky game. It comes off as a very competent and polished dungeon crawler, that may or may not have deep gameplay. My money is on shallow hack/slasher - but one can hope

Yes, maybe, but it's so much buried in my mind right now it's hard to get back to the original title again !