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September 26th, 2011, 12:48
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
How good is the German loca?
Superb. It's in english with subtitles.

€dith: Some minor glitches in the german subtitles, category "literal translation" that don't meet the intention. I stumbled upon it from time to time. As I was listening to the english voiceover I ignored it.
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Last edited by Avantenor; September 26th, 2011 at 16:36.
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September 26th, 2011, 14:35
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Is this not always the case? There are precious few games that actually change the gameplay with choices
I just gave you one example where your choices actually affect your game experience: the Iorveth/Roche choice, another recent example: picking factions in Risen.

Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
depending on how narrow a definition you choose, absolutely none.
And depending on how broad a definition you choose, absolutely all. If AP's C&C is to be praised and called a choose your own adventure for letting you affect the fate of its cast of a dozen or so characters then bethesda games would be c&c masterpieces since you can be responsible for the deaths of all of its hundreds of characters! Heck, doesn't even bioware allow you to kill off most companions?

Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
What you are really saying is, you didn't like the characters or the story, which is a matter of taste, otherwise you are holding AP to a standard no game exceeds.
No, I'm not holding to a higher standard, but you seem to be raising it to one.

What makes AP's C&C worthy of all this praise and of being marketed as "your weapon is choice"?

Last edited by KapitanUnterhosen; September 26th, 2011 at 15:06.
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September 26th, 2011, 16:15
Look at the RPG series held in the highest esteem (Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Gothic, …) and you will see that your choices have little affect on the course of the game other than to change a few details here and there. In none of them can you truly make a major shift in the plot. You will go to all the same places and do mostly (if not exactly) the same things no matter what your choices. It's your motivation and understanding of what is going on that changes. From that point of view AP does very well.
Last edited by BillSeurer; September 26th, 2011 at 16:15. Reason: typos
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September 26th, 2011, 16:28
It mainly effects the narrative aspect, that's correct. But that's not only AP doing it so . If you neglect the fact, that levels in the original Deus Ex have been much bigger than in AP, it's also a railroaded storyline where the final decision about the ending sequence is made during the last mission. Saved the game and played all three endings one after another. What you have done before has absolutely no influence on the game.

Now, many look at Deus Ex as a great game. The illusion of C&C is mainly made by large levels and different approaches (sneak, tech, fire) to solve the mission. Yes, you can let your brother die, you can kill Anna Navarre, but with no further consequences besides some dialog changes. It only affects your own reception. That's the same freedom of choice you also have in AP, 'though AP's level design is really straight forward and you always have the impression of being put into a corset. But that's a personal impression, you can barely backup with neutral arguments.

Risen has a different approach to RP and meets the expectations of exploring a world and developing your character based on a system of skills and talent. For that, it offers more freedom of choice than AP. But I never had the feeling, Obsidian tried to compete with that. It's an interesting story, those narration unfolds differently depending on your choices mainly done during dialogs.

I finished it a second time just some weeks ago, after a long time it had spend on the shelf. I was a little bit disappointed after my first walkthrough. I thought of the story being a little bit confusing, I also expected a little more from the gameplay. But the second time I saw the difference how it plays out in the end. For example, during the first I was not able to convince Parker, because I didn't have the dossier. I underestimated that aspect of the game and also missed many possibilities to gain access to that files. So in several missions I didn't have the information needed to get more options. Yes, it's simply a difference in dialogs, but during the second walkthrough the story became much clearer. I played another kind of character, chose different allies and got different insights, as depending on your allies the understanding of the circumstances varies.

It's another approach to RP and for sure something you can dispute endlessly if you prefer it that way or the other. For me, it was fine. It's sad that Sega canned the franchise. There have been some interesting side aspects that never got fully answered and indicated a possible sequel.
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October 24th, 2011, 18:14
I bought this during the $2 sale, and I'm really enjoying it, even Saudi Arabia. The only thing I can't stand is the checkpoint system. I'm a perfectionist and having to replay the same section 50 times is a drag. I think the game should save much more often than it does currently. I'll look around for a quicksave mod, but I doubt it exists. The rest of the game has been a lot of fun for me. I did have to tweak the mouse settings in the ini file because I couldn't do the computer hack at all with the mouse.

I've only done two missions in Saudi so far, the airport and the weapons dealer. I'm currently on the stockpile mission with the little twerp as my "handler". I want to shoot him in the balls again, that was fun!
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October 28th, 2011, 03:25
You can save inside the levels. If it works seems to be random.
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October 28th, 2011, 03:31
Fantastic, underrated, flawed, game.

Try to let your perfectionism go - one of the best things about this game is the different directions it can take because a dialogue turned unexpectedly.
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