Dark Souls - First Impressions

When you say "save anywhere", most people are going to interpret that as anywhere in the game.

As far as having multiple save slots, I agree. It would be nice to be able to go back to certain points and re-fight bosses, etc.

Originally Posted by JDR13
When you say "save anywhere", most people are going to interpret that as anywhere in the game.

As far as having multiple save slots, I agree. It would be nice to be able to go back to certain points and re-fight bosses, etc.

Yeah but then you'd have people reloading every time they lost their bloodstain and it would remove the challenge from the game. Also, people would reload before every boss fight and not have any penalty for dying. No soul loss, no humanity loss. It would take away from the atmosphere of the game.

A game designed around a singular frustrating unoriginal feature such as this is just a badly designed game. Sorry.

It sounds bad, but I wouldn't be so quick to judge something without even playing it.

I, and my fellow knights of Ni, are afraid of Dark Souls and will instead seek a shrubbery in Skyrim. Run away, run away!!!!

Well, a lot of people spend a lot of time shouting about how much they'd dislike this game.

That's probably because they're curious about it and have a hard time admitting it.

Quite human

You have checkpoints you can reach (bonfires) which is where you resurrect when you die. I was resurrecting over and over in the Undead Burg, and had to fight my way past the same 15 or so undead warriors over and over and over and over and over just to get to the boss fight (Taurus demon) and die again. Then start over.

It's still very compelling. As you can tell, I still can't get it out of my head. The thing is though (from what I've read) they amp up the difficulty all the way through, so its ALWAYS really hard no matter what level you are, because the enemies just keep getting bigger and meaner. I just couldn't do that to myself for 100 hours.

That's exactly the kind of repetitive gameplay I loathe. No thanks.

I am really happy there are still some games like this which have a good save system. Unfortunately no game where it would really shine that have choices and consequences in game gambling and competitions and such a things, haven't dared to take the step yet.

To each his own. Masochism is not my thing.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
To each his own. Masochism is not my thing.

But you do enjoy making the same point about this game over and over.

Interesting, don't you find?

Originally Posted by Ovenall
You have checkpoints you can reach (bonfires) which is where you resurrect when you die. I was resurrecting over and over in the Undead Burg, and had to fight my way past the same 15 or so undead warriors over and over and over and over and over just to get to the boss fight (Taurus demon) and die again. Then start over.

It's still very compelling. As you can tell, I still can't get it out of my head. The thing is though (from what I've read) they amp up the difficulty all the way through, so its ALWAYS really hard no matter what level you are, because the enemies just keep getting bigger and meaner. I just couldn't do that to myself for 100 hours.

A lot of it is just timing and learning the bosses movements. I've made it through the Gaping Dragon so far and didn't died more than once or twice on each boss. But I played Demon's Souls and beat the game in pure melee a couple times. As you get better with your timing and reflexes the game should get a bit easier. Another thing is stats and leveling make a big difference, especially considering every level gives you a point in physical defense. It makes a difference after awhile.

I'm guessing you have a 360 though. The cool thing about Demon's Souls was the way they structured most of the levels. You usually found a shortcut at the end of the level or somewhere in the level that connected to where the level began. So you didn't have to spend much time fighting to get back to the boss. There's actually a shortcut to the 3 bosses after the Taurus Demon. I just fought him next to the fog door you go through so I didn't get knocked off the ledge.

You probably should have made this thread before throwing the game away. I could have given you some tips on it. Like I'm wondering whether you understood equip burden and how it affected movement. Or the fact that you can equip spears and still hold your shield up while attacking with a spear (actually I think some rapiers do this too, piercing weapons). It's a pretty newb friendly option for melee.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
But you do enjoy making the same point about this game over and over.

Interesting, don't you find?

You think I am enjoying this? I guess everyone must be a masochist!

Originally Posted by Thrasher
A game designed around a singular frustrating unoriginal feature such as this is just a badly designed game. Sorry.

I speak only from experience with Demons Souls, so some details might be different.

I understand this isn't your thing (or lots of peoples) and I certainly gave up because it is too demanding for me - but your characterisation is completely wrong. It's very original (at least, in the sense noone else dares to do this at AAA level these days) and beautifully designed. When you re-play an area, you see the hints of danger to come, the nuances of the level design, the hidden areas, the opportunities you missed, the exquisite control and perfect (but hard!) balance.

The reason there is no save/load anywhere is to give weight and consequence to your actions. Not paying attention and you got killed from a hidden doorway? Tough! It's about honing your abilities until you get it right.

I've said for a long time (and yes, I know noone agrees) that most players (including me) just reload until they get the outcome they want, so the idea of "consequences" is rather laughable. This game forces you to live with your actions.

That's not for everyone. That's fine - don't play it. But don't write it off as "bad design" or consolitis - it's exactly the opposite.

I dont think I could handle this game for very long. I'm playing 2W which has literally no death penalty and save anywhere, and while that's exactly the other way and kinda lame too I just reload if I die anyway. Which i seldom do.

Dark Souls looks very interesting, it did pique my interest because I've enjoyed some pretty tough games in the past like Ghosts and Goblins and sequel. I watched a video review that went on and on about it's merits and it does look like a good game if you want to invest yourself in it and have the patience and tolerance (and blood pressure). My blood pressure is far too high - I dont mind some excitement but i dont need a game to stress me out. Last thing I need is a Dark Souls induced heart attack!

Originally Posted by Dhruin
That's not for everyone. That's fine - don't play it. But don't write it off as "bad design" or consolitis - it's exactly the opposite.

Well to me it is bad design, if I have to replay trash mobs over and over again, until some subtle trick is found. I hate trial and error gaming.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
A game designed around a singular frustrating unoriginal feature such as this is just a badly designed game. Sorry.

Ok, we have different tastes, and that's ok, but Dark Souls 'badly designed game'?
What? Have you finished it? Do you know all about the game? Why are judging it so harshly? Just because of saves? Your comment is similar to someone from RPGCodex, who hates (almost) every RPG for fun…
I'm not saying, of course, that you MUST play it, if it doesn't interest you, well, fine by me but please, remember this: we talk a lot about modern 'RPG' that have almost no consequences, that are ridiculously easy, every choice you make doesn't matter because there ISN'T any real choice to make, and when someone comes out with a game that's ALL about choices (few but important), then it's 'badly designed' because the auto save function makes your decision definitive for the rest of the playthrough… Bah.
If you want to save/load everywhere, there's plenty of games out there (and I play them as well), but this is different, and MUST be so. Why the hell would it be similar to every other game?

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Well to me it is bad design, if I have to replay trash mobs over and over again, until some subtle trick is found. I hate trial and error gaming.

Ah, but that's the point - there are no trash mobs. And it isn't trial and error if you pay careful attention - the clues are there. You don't get it, because you haven't seen this sort of thing, just the same as I hadn't. I hate replaying sections of a game but with this, I started to appreciate what they were doing.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Ah, but that's the point - there are no trash mobs. And it isn't trial and error if you pay careful attention - the clues are there. You don't get it, because you haven't seen this sort of thing, just the same as I hadn't. I hate replaying sections of a game but with this, I started to appreciate what they were doing.

I feel like the same: the Souls series is the only one that makes me doing trial and error until I win the fight not counting that it has the best third person sword & shield combat ever seen in a videogame…

It sounds like something I would at least like to try. Too bad its not coming to the PC, apparently.