M&M VII, party choice…

Having abandoned my notion of starting up Morrowind (Skyrim is so boring! I just can't take anymore TES right now), I've been planning my return to the M&M series.

Probably close to 10 years back, I played through (most of) M&M VI; I want to try something entirely new, so I've been slowly trying to pick a party for my virgin run through M&M VII.

What do you guys think of:

Knight Thief Cleric Sorceror (strong but this just seems so mundane a makeup!)
Monk Thief Cleric Sorceror
Knight Monk Cleric Archer (seems like it would be fun but I'm worried about no Lloyd's Beacon and only expert Disarm)

For the first playthrough i'd suggest the mundane starting party. It's there for a reason ;-). If you plan to take the evil path halfway through, you can opt for the monk instead of the thief. But be prepared to suffer while opening chests in the beginning !
Personally i'd never leave home without the sorcerer, period (high damage dealer middle and endgame and you need some of the convience spells like Lloyds beacon and fly). You might switch the cleric for a druid, altough i've never done that before.

IMO the one bad thing about MM7 is that you almost have to have a thief. That really limits the party makeup. Last time i replayed, i "cheated" by giving myself a high thief skill item to free up the thief slot. That was quite fun, but i wouldnt recommonend it on a virgin run. Have fun !

If you've played MM6 then the game mechanics are mostly similar.
I've never used LLoyd's beacon, but to be honest I only played through the game once. I played with an Archer instead of Thief, and with a Paladin instead of Knight.

I think the game is probably doable with most classes…
I've never played with a monk, so probably I would go with one next time I play the game, if ever.

I have never used a thief in an M&M game; there are spells which help open chests, plus others can take the disarm trap I believe. While melee types work fine early on, you really need magic later on. I always use a Sorc, Cleric and Druid plus whatever will round out the party; often an Archer.

I'd really like to try out a monk… but it being my first VII playthrough, I'm starting to think it a bad idea with how slowly they purportedly develop =(

Originally Posted by Corwin
While melee types work fine early on, you really need magic later on.

Isn't this more the case for M&M VI than it is for VII?

I think a balanced approach is probably easier for your first time party. However, I found MM6 to be the more longer and more difficult game overall.

In my first MM7 playthrough I went with the slightly generic but nontheless effective group on the dark path: Knight, Archer, Cleric, Sorcerer.

Ultimately you can probably make most parties work with creative gameplay. I think I started a light path game a few years ago with a Druid and Paladin instead of the Knight and Priest, but got distracted somewhere. Still, fun games - good to see them getting some play here.

Originally Posted by Drithius
I'd really like to try out a monk… but it being my first VII playthrough, I'm starting to think it a bad idea with how slowly they purportedly develop =(


Isn't this more the case for M&M VI than it is for VII?

Corwin thinks every game must be played with a hocus-pocus emphasis. He just can't help himself. MM7 plays just fine with 4 pointy stick swingers, although I wouldn't recommend such a party to a rookie.

To shake up the formula a little bit, you might look into swapping a paladin in for the knight. You lose a little oomph, but you pick up a secondary healer. Useful for rookies. You'll also want to have someone in the party with good perception. Using an archer picks up the perception and you can still get decent L&T.

So, I guess I'm seconding Pladio's party: pally, archer, sorc, cleric

(note, don't put your sorc on the end! Positions 1 and 4 are strongly rumored to be targetted more often, so you don't want the squishy sorc over there)

Thanks for the input, guys; much appreciated!

Dte, I think I was more open to an Archer before finding out that they only get basic Disarm before their first promotion ;(

And Paladin sort of forces you into mace instead of the Knight's polearm and/or sword choice. And I love polearms! I love polearms on a dwarf even more

So, I think I'll finally put Skyrim aside later today and make a KTCS party (though not in that party order, thanks!). Even though it sounds a mundane makeup on paper, I can't argue with the ability to use maces, swords, daggers, polearms, leather, chain, & plate that I find.

I should play more and strategize less.

One thing that's been nagging at me… the race stat penalties and bonuses (to endurance, accuracy, etc): do they carry through to normal gameplay or are they only present for character creation?

Character creation only. If you find a potion (barrel) that raises speed two, the dwarf will get two points when drinking it, etc.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
Character creation only. If you find a potion (barrel) that raises speed two, the dwarf will get two points when drinking it, etc.

Cool, thanks! Dwarf with a bigass halberd on the way.

Originally Posted by Drithius
Dte, I think I was more open to an Archer before finding out that they only get basic Disarm before their first promotion ;(

Conveniently, the first archer promo quest is easy to get and easy to do, IIRC. That said, it's all tradeoffs. For example, being able to brew black potions with a druid is quite nice, but you sacrifice a good bit not having the GM caster. That's the beauty of MM7's character development system to my mind--there is no "obvious" party build and there is also no "hopeless" party build. With skill and a little luck, any party can be made to work, but there's no way to cover all the skills at GM level within a single party. That's a good system, and it's the reason I place MM7 higher on my Best Evah list than MM6, even though MM6 has a larger, better world.

I need to play 7 sometime soon, since I liked World of Xeen so much.

DTE, what do you mean by GM?

Grand Master. It varies by class what useful skill earning GM opens up, but it's always good and usually great. In MM6, they used the basic/expert/master tiers for your abilities, but every class could make master in every skill. In MM7, they tacked grandmaster on top and added class limitations. So, for example, only druids can pick up GM in alchemy. A sorceror, even fully promoted, can't get better than master. Since GM alchemy is required to mix black potions, if you want to do that you've got to take a druid. But, druids max out at master level for all the spell schools (unlike a sorc, who can GM) which means you can't get level 10 elemental spells, such as the tremendously useful Lloyd's Beacon.

Choices, choices.

edit- you know, it's kinda interesting how it works out. I loves me character development that forces me to make choices and prevents me from "having it all", but as a complete-ist I get cranky if the game prevents me from "doing it all". Strange bit of insanity, that. I think that's part of what makes Morrowind such a disappointment--you can, given enough time and obsession, have 100's in every skill. No choices there.

I seem to always end up with Paladin, Archer, Cleric, Sorcerer. I've messed with most of the classes but always end up back at these four. I never play the dark side though, and that makes a difference.

Does it help to have 2 characters that can cast lloyd's beacon like in World of Xeen? It was a major timesaver and kept my characters for prematurely aging.

@Drithius- Would you be interested in a copy of the official strategy guide? I've got two of them and I don't need both. PM me if you want it.

*Edit* Anyone else?

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Does it help to have 2 characters that can cast lloyd's beacon like in World of Xeen? It was a major timesaver and kept my characters for prematurely aging.

Unnecessary. If you've got a water GM to cast Lloyd's, then he can also cast town portal. With the single caster, you can blip back-n-forth. Besides, you can actually "tag" 4 or 5 locations at the same time with the Lloyd's spell and choose which one you want to go to.

My one and only actual finish of MM7. I did play through with lots of different parties, but I only finished the game once.


EDIT: I still don't know what Lloyd's beacon is actually …

Originally Posted by dteowner
Unnecessary. If you've got a water GM to cast Lloyd's, then he can also cast town portal. With the single caster, you can blip back-n-forth. Besides, you can actually "tag" 4 or 5 locations at the same time with the Lloyd's spell and choose which one you want to go to.

That's different than World of Xeen. Only one location could be tagged per caster.