RPGs with good ideas that fell short

There were a lot of good ideas in Morrowind but I agree it's a good example of a game that fell short. Things like the thousands of readable books and diverse quests and guilds were fun, but the more you played, the more it felt you were tangled up in a complicated web not really going much of anywhere. I spent hours with the alchemy skill, --collecting, mixing, advancing the skill, etc--without it really making much difference at all to my character's progression, other than occupying my time I guess.

I agree with Mike on Kult:HK; it met its goals and gave the kind of experience the player signed up for. The only place where it might have rated a bit higher was length--awfully short game.

Originally Posted by txa1265
It is pretty good - the thing I liked about it was that it *didn't* fall short, because it didn't reach for the stars. It is a small scope game that does what it sets out to do. It has some good ideas, and things that could have been better, but it is a solid little game that I definitely recommend you try.

I still have this one somewhere - never really played it. I think I'll give it a try…

Originally Posted by Fenris
IMO pretty much every CRPG since BG 2 Shadows of Amn fell short - there are many with good Ideas, but I find mayor flaws in every single one of them

I agree! That was the one game I played without feeling like it was missing anything. Sure it wasn't perfect but it came close - and it didn't have any glaring flaws and was fun from start to finish.

I could probably add every single game I've played since, but I won't, hehe. But to name a few which had big potential:

Morrowind - Amazingly original art design, lots of interesting lore, good main quests. BUT: Combat was lacking, face models were ugly to the point of distraction, great big world with not much happening in it (lifeless NPCs), and CLIFF RACERS! To be fair though, a lot of these could be fixed with Mods - but shame on Bethesda for not adding/fixing the most obvious ones.

Oblivion - The good idea here is that it was another Elder Scrolls game and most players hoped for an improved Morrowind. The combat system WAS improved and graphics were stunning. BUT: nearly everything else was a step down from Morrowind. The game felt repetetive, dull, had a lousy interface, loot/level scaling was stupid, etc.

KOTOR/KOTOR 2 - Excellent dialogue, good stories, great NPCs. BUT: extremely linear, ridiculously easy combat, KOTOR2 buggy and "unfinished".

NWN 2 - Very good dialogue, NPCs with personality, good improvement over NWN 1's graphics and campaign. BUT: buggy, extremely linear. Lots of bugs and other issues have been fixed with patches and probably will be in the future but it does not change the biggest problem with the game - it's linearity. Besides the DnD license, NWN2 isn't far from an Eastern (Japanese) console RPG which I love - but I play PC RPGs for a different "flavor".

Baldur's Gate 2 did everything right. Not only are today's games lacking in nearly every department but they are also nowhere as "epic" as BG2 was. That was about 80 hours well spent and I didn't even do everything in the game.

Well said. Although Baldur's Gate 2 has flaws, as nothing is ever perfect, it is quite possibly the greatest RPG ever made. Just following the main quest in BG2 takes me longer than every major questline in Oblivion (guilds and main quest) combined.

Good to see BG2 getting the props it deserves, it's definitely in the top 5 rpg's I've ever played, and I've played a lot.

I see a lot of people naming Gothic 3 as a good idea that fell short. I agree that the initial release fits that bill, however I think the final patch might change that opinion.

…..at least I hope.

Right now, JDR13, my biggest complaint with Gothic 3 is the lack of interesting quests. It's scary how many fed-ex quests there are. It almost seems to be exclusively so, and I'm really surprised the guys at PB didn't realize this, or design it differently, or….. something.

Patch 1.12 certainly makes the game solid enough to stop discussing bugs as a big issue. Also, most other painful issues are gone as well - very few creatures can now defeat humanoids, they no longer stunlock as badly, NPC followers can take tons more damage, and so on.

It still pales in comparison to the first 2 Gothic games.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but I guess Lionheart is a candidate. The game had a fairly nice setting, but unfortunately the game itself was… oh well…

Lionheart is a very good example. The first two chapters or so (in Barcelona I think) were great, and showed a lot of promise, but it went downhill from there. The general idea behind the game was great, but I suspect they didn't have the needed time/resources to finish it.

^ Agreed! The setting in Lionheart is just great - original, immersive storyline… it just kinda turns into a Diablo-ish clickfest by the time you get to France. And god help you if you are a mage… regenerating that mana pool takes time!

Originally Posted by Maylander
Lionheart is a very good example. The first two chapters or so (in Barcelona I think) were great, and showed a lot of promise, but it went downhill from there. The general idea behind the game was great, but I suspect they didn't have the needed time/resources to finish it.

I never finished it either I got 20-30 really fun hours out of it and was happy based on the price I paid ($11 total on eBay for Arcanum, Lionheart & Pools of Radiance 2)

Jade Empire
Oblivion
Gothic 3

comes to mind immidietly… a lot more too probably.

Originally Posted by Hindukönig
Where are the good ideas in Ultima IX?

Ultima IX was one of the first, huge, 3d worlds ever created for PC. After of course Super Mario for Nintendo 64. It also had full speech for every character including your avatar. It was way ahead of its time.

The world was NOT huge, it folded back on itself and had ridiculous places, where if you climbed up a hill in one town, you could jump down into another half a continent away!!

Originally Posted by Corwin
The world was NOT huge, it folded back on itself and had ridiculous places, where if you climbed up a hill in one town, you could jump down into another half a continent away!!

For 1999 it was huge. Now? Not so much.

Gothic 1 was also released in 1999, and that game still kicks ass even by todays standards.

Originally Posted by donjn
Ultima IX was one of the first, huge, 3d worlds ever created for PC. After of course Super Mario for Nintendo 64. It also had full speech for every character including your avatar. It was way ahead of its time.

Ya, maybe - but to be honest that does not make it a better game. Who cares if it has a huge 3D World that hardly anyone can play because the engine is terribly unefficient and had more memory leakes than my brain on a sunday morning? Being ahead of your time can be as much a flaw as being behind… from a technical point of view.
It also was terribly linear for an Ultima Game, you couldn't really go wherever you wanted.

Originally Posted by donjn
Ultima IX was one of the first, huge, 3d worlds ever created for PC. After of course Super Mario for Nintendo 64. It also had full speech for every character including your avatar. It was way ahead of its time.

Those aren't "ideas" per se. Everybody can say "let's make a big world and full speech for everybody". IMHO.

BTW, both were done before with Outcast. Ultima IX wasn't ahead of its time, it was riding the wave.

I'll add Bloodlines to the list.

Great game but the lack of polish; ending way too quickly, and bugs was a great shame. Still - really like the characters and reactions to your decisions in Vampire.