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CRPG Analyzer: A checklist for computer role-playing games
November 6th, 2014, 09:59
Originally Posted by HiddenXFirst two sound fine, but in regard to E5 I'm not sure about backtracking if its use in a game is relatively limited. If you feel like you are on rails most of the time and may wander off only rarely, we usually call CRPGs like that linear (Zloth mentioned "basically linear" J-RPGs) lots of story and character development, but very limited exploration:
E6: your character(s) can manipulate and change the game world appropriate to the game's setting (-> e.g. pull levers, push buttons, open chests, hack computers )
E7: the gameworld can affect your character(s) conditions or circumstances(-> e.g. weather, traps, closed doors, poisoned areas, ) in a way that you have to learn and adapt to overcome these challenges.
maybe:
E5: you can choose a path (-> there is at least some branching or backtracking)
What do you think?

So I'd say we try to leave backtracking and pseudo-branching out of E5. Maybe we could add something like "it doesn't mostly feel like you are on rails" instead? The point is that linear CRPGs should fall out of the SH exploration category.
That said, it's important to remember that one shouldn't go out of their way to prove one of the points true. I'm sure in really abstract ways Pac Man or even Pong, in which you can role-play a ping pong paddle, could be made to fit. A little bit of common sense and gut feeling may help with remedying that.

edit: We should add "Linear" to our Genre tags. Would this suffice as a description?
Linear: Exploration options are very limited. It feels like you are on rails most of the time.
edit2: in your graphic you listed "Sim game". Perhaps we should add that as a tag too. Do you have a description?
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
Last edited by Arhu; November 6th, 2014 at 10:18.
November 6th, 2014, 21:03
I'm not a Sim expert, but this should be fitting:
Simulation Game (short: Sim):
Simulation Game (short: Sim):
A Simulation Game tries to simulate "real life" activities in a sandbox game as accurately as possible. Most Sims have neither strictly defined goals nor predefined story paths.Linear:
Exploration options are very limited. It feels like you are on rails most of the time.-> the linear description is okay.
Last edited by HiddenX; November 6th, 2014 at 21:29.
November 7th, 2014, 10:41
Alright. I renamed two tag groups again. This is what it looks like at the moment:
Genre: CRPG, CRPG-ish, Non-CRPG, MMO
Subgenre: Adventure, Action, Linear, Sneaker, Dungeon Crawler, …
Genre tags are derived automatically from the MH/SH list and the multiplayer tag group. It works fairly well, but I'm not really happy about the "CRPG-ish" name as a Genre tag. Could we use different names, perhaps?
Like:
- "Pure CRPG" and CRPG (plus subgenres) — might sound too pretentious
- CRPG and "Light CRPG" — I wouldn't exactly call JRPGs "light"
- CRPG and Sub-CRPG — sounds like "subpar".. not good
- CRPG and CRPG-like — might sound too belittling
- CRPG and CRPG (plus subgenres) — too confusing…
- CRPG and Subgenre-CRPG — mm.. this could work, perhaps
Another question: Should we include something like"Budget" as another tag group, so we could distinguish between "AAA" and "Indie" and so on? If so, which tags could we use and what would be their traits?
I already added the "Rewards System" category from a few posts back.
Genre: CRPG, CRPG-ish, Non-CRPG, MMO
Subgenre: Adventure, Action, Linear, Sneaker, Dungeon Crawler, …
Genre tags are derived automatically from the MH/SH list and the multiplayer tag group. It works fairly well, but I'm not really happy about the "CRPG-ish" name as a Genre tag. Could we use different names, perhaps?
Like:
- "Pure CRPG" and CRPG (plus subgenres) — might sound too pretentious
- CRPG and "Light CRPG" — I wouldn't exactly call JRPGs "light"
- CRPG and Sub-CRPG — sounds like "subpar".. not good
- CRPG and CRPG-like — might sound too belittling
- CRPG and CRPG (plus subgenres) — too confusing…
- CRPG and Subgenre-CRPG — mm.. this could work, perhaps
Another question: Should we include something like"Budget" as another tag group, so we could distinguish between "AAA" and "Indie" and so on? If so, which tags could we use and what would be their traits?
I already added the "Rewards System" category from a few posts back.
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
November 7th, 2014, 21:25
"CRPG derivative" might work, but it's too many syllables and technical sounding.
Also, "Open World" for a sub-genre tag would be good to add.
Also, "Open World" for a sub-genre tag would be good to add.
Last edited by Thrasher; November 7th, 2014 at 22:12.
November 7th, 2014, 21:37
CRPG-ish:
= Game with some RPG-elements.
(almost CRPG, near CRPG,…)
Budget, Indie, AAA is mixed up.
Funding model:
Indie,Crowdfunding,Publisher
Production value:
Budget, Mid Range, AAA
= Game with some RPG-elements.
(almost CRPG, near CRPG,…)
Budget, Indie, AAA is mixed up.
Funding model:
Indie,Crowdfunding,Publisher
Production value:
Budget, Mid Range, AAA
November 7th, 2014, 22:00
Originally Posted by ThrasherGot a description to go with that?
Also, "Open World" for a sub-genre tag would be good to add.
Is it different enough from Sandbox to make the distinction? I don't have much experience with those two, to be honest.Originally Posted by HiddenXSounds good. And I might sound like a broken record, but … descriptions?
Funding model:
Indie,Crowdfunding,Publisher
Production value:
Budget, Mid Range, AAA
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
November 7th, 2014, 22:12
Open world to me means there is none to little to movement, exploration, and interaction restrictions at the start (or near beginning) of the game.
Sandbox to me is more about freedom in character building. No classes, no restrictions in character development.
But these 2 categories may overlap, as well. But they aren't necessarily subsets, one of the other. There's certainly an intersection. And many open world games also have unrestricted character development. But there are exceptions. I think.
Sandbox to me is more about freedom in character building. No classes, no restrictions in character development.
But these 2 categories may overlap, as well. But they aren't necessarily subsets, one of the other. There's certainly an intersection. And many open world games also have unrestricted character development. But there are exceptions. I think.
November 7th, 2014, 23:15
Open world game = freedom to explore in all directions.
Examples:Might & Magic, Wizardry 8, Gothic 2, etc.
Sandbox game = A game that can go on forever with no clear end goal, resetting dungeons, respawning, generated quests, etc.
Examples: Mount&Blade, Darklands, Pirates, Elite, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., etc.
Skyrim is an open world and sandbox game.
Examples:Might & Magic, Wizardry 8, Gothic 2, etc.
Sandbox game = A game that can go on forever with no clear end goal, resetting dungeons, respawning, generated quests, etc.
Examples: Mount&Blade, Darklands, Pirates, Elite, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., etc.
Skyrim is an open world and sandbox game.
November 8th, 2014, 16:41
Funding model:
Indie: self-funding independent person/group
Crowdfunding: funding with crowdfunding methods (Kickstarter, IndieGoGo,…)
Publisher: funding with the help of a Publisher
Production value:
Budget: Only a limited budget is available. < $250,000) (< 5 man-years)
Mid Range: $250,000-$500,000 (5-10 man-years)
High: $500,000 - $2,000,000 (10-40 man-years)
AAA: >$2,000,000 (> 40 man-years)
Indie: self-funding independent person/group
Crowdfunding: funding with crowdfunding methods (Kickstarter, IndieGoGo,…)
Publisher: funding with the help of a Publisher
Production value:
Budget: Only a limited budget is available. < $250,000) (< 5 man-years)
Mid Range: $250,000-$500,000 (5-10 man-years)
High: $500,000 - $2,000,000 (10-40 man-years)
AAA: >$2,000,000 (> 40 man-years)
November 8th, 2014, 18:36
Roger. Going to add those things. Some questions though:
Where would, say, Divinity: OS fit in the Funding model category? Indie + Crowdfunded? What if publishers have in-house development teams?
Is there an easy way to find out the budget of a game? It would be nice if all tag groups could be answered intuitively, but if not we should at least provide help in choosing. I guess one could identify low-budget, mid and high budget titles at a glance just by how they look, but as we know looks can be deceiving…
Is Diablo a Sandbox game? My gut says no, as there's always sort of an end goal, but what do you guys and gals say?
Where would, say, Divinity: OS fit in the Funding model category? Indie + Crowdfunded? What if publishers have in-house development teams?
Is there an easy way to find out the budget of a game? It would be nice if all tag groups could be answered intuitively, but if not we should at least provide help in choosing. I guess one could identify low-budget, mid and high budget titles at a glance just by how they look, but as we know looks can be deceiving…
Is Diablo a Sandbox game? My gut says no, as there's always sort of an end goal, but what do you guys and gals say?
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
November 8th, 2014, 19:35
Diablo is some kind of Rogue-like (much loot, generated dungeons, no story to speak of) for dummies.
November 11th, 2014, 11:56
Good news, everyone!
Here's a beta version of our CRPG Analyzer:
[ http://www.rpgwatch.com/crpg-analyzer.html ]
Feel free to play around with it. It's not pretty, but functional. It has the following features:
The data you put in can later potentially be used to find games by tags or compare games. I'm also thinking of adding the analysis to our game pages, including user comments.
I can of course change the default BB-Code template to better accomodate our usage (HiddenX usually does the MH/SH list without spoiler tags). I'm also going to put the current tag list in text-form so we can update our forum text file.
Here's a beta version of our CRPG Analyzer:
[ http://www.rpgwatch.com/crpg-analyzer.html ]
Feel free to play around with it. It's not pretty, but functional. It has the following features:
- Select game from our database, load and save your progress, if you are logged in.
- Lets you add an optional short comment on every element
- BB-Code generation at any time.
The data you put in can later potentially be used to find games by tags or compare games. I'm also thinking of adding the analysis to our game pages, including user comments.
I can of course change the default BB-Code template to better accomodate our usage (HiddenX usually does the MH/SH list without spoiler tags). I'm also going to put the current tag list in text-form so we can update our forum text file.
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
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November 11th, 2014, 12:01
Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines

Classification: CRPG
Subgenre: Action
Design: Dark, Low Fantasy, W-RPG
Theme: Vampires
Setting: Real World, Urban, Modern
Combat Style: Real-time
Reward System: Skill points
Play Style: Single-player
Point of View: 1st-person, 3rd-person
Camera: Tracking
Color Palette: Realistic
Control: Full Control
Voice Acting: Partially Voiced
Character Backstory: Selectable
Playtime: 20-40 hours
Funding model: Publisher
Subgenre: Action
Design: Dark, Low Fantasy, W-RPG
Theme: Vampires
Setting: Real World, Urban, Modern
Combat Style: Real-time
Reward System: Skill points
Play Style: Single-player
Point of View: 1st-person, 3rd-person
Camera: Tracking
Color Palette: Realistic
Control: Full Control
Voice Acting: Partially Voiced
Character Backstory: Selectable
Playtime: 20-40 hours
Funding model: Publisher
Spoiler – Complete CRPG analysis for VtM: Bloodlines
This fact sheet was created using CRPG Analyzer 1.02 Beta.
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
Last edited by Arhu; December 10th, 2014 at 12:37.
November 11th, 2014, 16:53
I'm not sure the budget adds anything positive. Nowadays you can do more with 500k than you could with 2M a couple of years back - and 500k in the US is nothing while the same amount in Poland is a lot. It's the sort of data which potentially misleads unless there's half a page of context is given.
November 11th, 2014, 16:56
Originally Posted by GorathI tend to agree, which is why I only included the funding model. It's also pretty hard to answer what the budget was for a given game …
I'm not sure the budget adds anything positive. Nowadays you can do more with 500k than you could with 2M a couple of years back - and 500k in the US is nothing while the same amount in Poland is a lot. It's the sort of data which potentially misleads unless there's half a page of context is given.
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
November 11th, 2014, 20:48
Well done, Arhu!
Your CRPG-Analyzer user interface is easy to handle.
Your CRPG-Analyzer user interface is easy to handle.
Last edited by HiddenX; November 11th, 2014 at 22:00.
November 11th, 2014, 21:49
I. King's Bounty: Dark Side

II. Defining Features
The three core categories Character Development, Exploration and Story that need to be applied and quantified to determine if an interactive computerized game can be labeled as a Computer Role Playing Game (hereafter referred to as CRPG) are listed to show the necessary component elements and qualifying factors.
Spoiler – i. Must Have
Spoiler – ii. Should Have
King's Bounty: Dark Side belongs to a CRPG Subgenre. See tags below.
III. Tags
Tags are computer game tags that qualify the CRPG label even further.
Classification:
Subgenre: Tactical, Strategy
Setting: Alternate World
Design: Steampunk
Theme: Fables/Fairy Tale
Combat Style: Turn-based
Reward System: Experience
Multiplayer: Single-player
Point of View: Isometric
Color Palette: Whimsical
Control: Full Control
Voice Acting: Text Only
Character Backstory: Selectable
Playtime: Over 60 hours
Funding model: Publisher
IV. Elements
Optional elements are listed in the Nice to Have (NtH) list. With it you get precise information which optional CRPG elements are implemented in the game. A general game info questionnaire is added too, to do some rating.
Spoiler – 1. Character Development
Spoiler – 2. Exploration
Spoiler – 3. Story
Spoiler – 4. Combat (Meta)
V. Fun Features
Spoiler – Fun Features
November 11th, 2014, 22:51
Awesome.
I spotted a few small bugs.. will try and see if I can catch them.
Anything amiss? Maybe we could use a "Conclusion" field …
I spotted a few small bugs.. will try and see if I can catch them.Anything amiss? Maybe we could use a "Conclusion" field …
--
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
November 11th, 2014, 23:07
A few bugs:
Multiplayer: Single-player should be:
Play-Style: Single-player
the word Cliche is written %&$!
A conclusion can be added by hand, but an optional field within the Analyzer would be nice, too.
Some volunteers to try this?
Multiplayer: Single-player should be:
Play-Style: Single-player
the word Cliche is written %&$!
A conclusion can be added by hand, but an optional field within the Analyzer would be nice, too.
Some volunteers to try this?
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