Suggest a game (exploration-based)

Personally I think it's possible to design a game to be challenging all the way through, even without level-scaling. But I don't think there's a market for that. Most casual (and many other) gamers don't share my masochistic tendencies when it comes to RPGs, so there's not really any advantage for a developer to go that way.

Originally Posted by Elel
So far instead of looking at the Two Worlds I looked at Kingdoms of Amalur, and oh my god, the camera! It's not over the shoulder, but right behind the character, as if focusing on the feet and there's no way to bend its angle a bit upwards. Moreso, the camera distance to the character isn't fixed like it should be, so the camera keeps moving backward and forward all the time. I guess this was designed for masochists, I can't believe such a camera even exists! Well, I'm going to pass on this game until there's nothing alike left anymore.

Yeah. A lot of people hated that camera, but there is a mod for it that makes it better. My friend actually made a video on how to do it if you're interested. Just watch this >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8nbKtMSSi4

Well, there is actually one game with a huge open world, where the fights are challenging from the beginning to the end. It’s probably the hardest RPG I have played yet.
And it’s also one of the best RPGs I have ever played: Avernum: Escape from the pit
Unfortunately it does not fit Elel’s requirements though by being 2D and isometric.
But if you can get over that requirement, make sure to check out that game. It sells for just 10€ and there is also a demo available.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
Well, there is actually one game with a huge open world, where the fights are challenging from the beginning to the end. It’s probably the hardest RPG I have played yet.
And it’s also one of the best RPGs I have ever played: Avernum: Escape from the pit
Unfortunately it does not fit Elel’s requirements though by being 2D and isometric.
But if you can get over that requirement, make sure to check out that game. It sells for just 10€ and there is also a demo available.

It's part of my backlog, so I might give it a try soon. It's just that Avadon's linearity was a bit of a turn-off for me, so I wasn't all that eager to play other Spiderweb games, even though I heard they are usually quite different in that regard.

Yub, Avadon 1 is extremely linear, Avernum is extremely open, and Avadon 2 is linear again but offers tons of sidequests and sends you back to old zones a lot where suddenly a passage opened, but there you have a lot to explore as well

Fluent, can you still use this program if your monitor isn't wide-screen? It's still not ideal, since the camera is simply zoomed out rather than moved a bit upwards, but it looks better than the in-game camera.

A question about Two Worlds. Is it possible to play as a mage comfortably in that game? By comfortably I mean no such situations when you're:

1) in tight space and a horde of enemies is beating on you and you die within seconds;

2) in spacious area, but a horde of enemies is running after you, and you're running from them in circles like an idiot, shooting spells. (Why can't they realize they're running in circles, oh why…)

Usually invisibility solves these problems, but I checked out the info online and it would seem there's no such thing in this game. Although there is stealth, but can it be used mid-fight? Summons help, but only when enemy AI goes after the summon exclusively, otherwise it's running in circles scenario for each battle with multiple enemies. I wonder if summons are useful in this game or if there are other methods.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
Yub, Avadon 1 is extremely linear, Avernum is extremely open, and Avadon 2 is linear again but offers tons of sidequests and sends you back to old zones a lot where suddenly a passage opened, but there you have a lot to explore as well

+1 on Avernum. If you love exploration and can stomach the graphics you really need to at least try this one. I personally liked the character system in Avernum 6 more (no big fan of skilltrees) but overall I had enormous fun exploring the underground world of the remake (and I am sure to enjoy #6's remake too ). I'd definitely put it very high up on my "exploration done right " personal chart…

Well, you guys should role-play a character instead of min-maxing …. This way you'll enjoy the game until the end (or get your asses kicked in games like GII:NOTR)).

I am starting the Witcher now, but I'm going to go with talents and skills that seem fun, rather than trying to build a perfect bulldozer.

I'm going to play a Witcher who is intelligent and dexterous.

Hopefully I won't be maiming myself, but I'm playing on Normal so I'm expecting it to be alright.


About games with good exploration, I would suggest the Elder Scrolls games, Norrowing, Oblivion and Skyrim (was going to write Skyfall ) have tons of exploration and good graphics.

T'ain't nothin' wrong with Avernum's graphics. I'll throw in another recommendation for it, though. It's got some nice little nooks and crannies to poke around in.

Oh they are not a problem for me. I can switch from Skyrim to Arcanum or From Deus X:HR to the original (There goes my IWD replay again ) without blinking an eye.

But you really gotta warn people these days that they have to pass that hurdle to get to how fun the game is

Originally Posted by Kordanor
Avernum: Escape from the pit

Mis-reading : "Avernum : Escape from the plot".

Originally Posted by Elel
A question about Two Worlds. Is it possible to play as a mage comfortably in that game? By comfortably I mean no such situations when you're:

1) in tight space and a horde of enemies is beating on you and you die within seconds;

2) in spacious area, but a horde of enemies is running after you, and you're running from them in circles like an idiot, shooting spells. (Why can't they realize they're running in circles, oh why…)

When I plaed Two Worlds Two I decided combat the following way:
I didn't spend any point into the characters skills during the first several levels.
Instead I got used to the combat mechanics.
Personally I hate melee combat with console controls. So these clumsy control went out of the window for me. A friend of mine played a melee though and said it was fine, though he had some harder battles.
I however chose to become a mage. Even if you have an extremely weak character you can basically kill everything with proper movement. And I guess that is what you meant with #2.
But with a character on magic with the same progression as a character on melee you will most likely have an much easier job.
There was only one battle I remember so far which was like what you described in #1 and where it felt hard to me to deal with the narrow space. It's very rare.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
I however chose to become a mage. Even if you have an extremely weak character you can basically kill everything with proper movement. And I guess that is what you meant with #2.

Well, I don't know. I wouldn't call that movement "proper", it's rather a completely broken way of playing that looks so dumb that you feel embarrassed to play like that!

What I mean looks like this, starting from 30 seconds in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfSvVk9jTzY
A mage without a party running from an ogre in circles non-stop. He won by running for three minutes, oh my god, now imagine each single fight to look so silly!

Whenever I see that happening in any game, I know that mage character is improperly designed. (Not in this particular game, of course, the issue only exists in single character games, the solo mage playthrough just illustrates the problem). Now, if DA:O was designed for solo play, there should've been something like invisibility or teleportation for the mage, so that he could move away convincingly, rather than run from enemies. In other words, some tricks for mobility.

Or it could be very well designed dodging (real dodging, not running). Timestop, timeslow, freezing spells that actually last, whatever.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
But with a character on magic with the same progression as a character on melee you will most likely have an much easier job.

Did you mean splitting skillpoints evenly or going pure mage?

I went pure mage from what I remember.

But yeah, what you can see in the video can happen in the game, but it's just an option. Like when you want to face an enemy which is much higher in the level than you and you normally shouldn't be able to kill it at that time. As mage: You can always kill everything, just takes ages. You don't have the possibility when going melee.

Originally Posted by Pladio
I am starting the Witcher now, but I'm going to go with talents and skills that seem fun, rather than trying to build a perfect bulldozer.

I'm going to play a Witcher who is intelligent and dexterous.

Hopefully I won't be maiming myself, but I'm playing on Normal so I'm expecting it to be alright.

If you're not too far into the game, I'd recommend starting over on Hard. The Normal difficulty in The Witcher is like the easy setting in most other RPGS.

Originally Posted by Elel
Fluent, can you still use this program if your monitor isn't wide-screen? It's still not ideal, since the camera is simply zoomed out rather than moved a bit upwards, but it looks better than the in-game camera.

A question about Two Worlds. Is it possible to play as a mage comfortably in that game? By comfortably I mean no such situations when you're:

1) in tight space and a horde of enemies is beating on you and you die within seconds;

2) in spacious area, but a horde of enemies is running after you, and you're running from them in circles like an idiot, shooting spells. (Why can't they realize they're running in circles, oh why…)

Not really possible to avoid that, no. Near the end of each game, spell scaling in both Two Worlds games seems a bit off, so you'll either need to create heavy spells that drain your mana in one go or resort to running around.

Originally Posted by JDR13
If you're not too far into the game, I'd recommend starting over on Hard. The Normal difficulty in The Witcher is like the easy setting in most other RPGS.

Actually got my ass kicked by the Beast a few times before beating it, so I'm thinking I might stay like this ..

I don't dodge enough I think, which might be a reason for being in trouble, but those hounds were very annoying !

Originally Posted by JDR13
If you're not too far into the game, I'd recommend starting over on Hard. The Normal difficulty in The Witcher is like the easy setting in most other RPGS.

I played Witcher 1 for the Story alone and found the combat horribly implemented. The combat is nothing but a timing effort by literally clicking at the right moment to do the right moves.

But of course you have decide for yourself if you like that kind of combat or not.
I didn't and was therefore happy to get it over asap. Was one of very, very few games where I didn't chose the highest difficulty.

I think I'll probably stay on Normal. No point in starting over in my opinion. Just a waste of time…

The combat is a lot more enjoyable on Hard. You won't have that icon telling you when to strike, and the difficulty feels about right. That said, I understand not wanting to restart if you're in Chapter 2 already.

Fwiw, The Beast is an abnormally difficult battle. The rest of the game is a cakewalk by comparison.