First time with Gothic 3

Hello fellow Watchers!

After recently completing and thoroughly enjoying Risen 2, I decided to go back and visit some of the Piranha Bytes catalog for the first time ever. I've only been gaming on PC for a year and some change so older PC RPGs are new to me.

That said, I decided to jump into Gothic 3 first, for a few reasons.

Reason #1 - It's a large open-world, possibly as large as Oblivion and the like, which is something I enjoy.

#2 - It's graphically decent looking. I'm not a complete graphics whore, but I wouldn't mind easing my way into the Gothic series by starting with the best one graphically (not including Gothic 4).

And #3 - I wanted to save the games that are widely considered the classic Gothics (Gothics 1 and 2) for last.

Anyway, after all this I finally have Gothic 3 installed on my computer and ready to go. I do have some questions, though.

Question #1 - I'm getting stuttering and low FPS, playing on Windows 7 64-bit with a Radeon 7970m GPU and i7 CPU. I'm using the latest patch (1.75 I believe) with graphical settings set to max. Surely I should be able to run this game on max settings with this GPU, so something must be holding me back here. Any ideas of how I can troubleshoot this and get better framerate?

Question #2 - The combat. Oh boy. I don't want to be too harsh as I've only played the very early combat sequence of the game, but the combat is rough so far. Does it get better? Is there any strategy to combat other than just mashing away at the attack button?

Question #3 - Alternate balancing. Is this recommended by any of you who have tried it? I like the grind of becoming powerful to take awhile, not instant gratification. That said, I don't want to completely gimp myself, but maybe the AB adds a little more immersion to the game. Thoughts on this would be welcome.

Also, I find it odd that I'm starting the game and right away I'm slaying foul creatures. I have some help, sure, but I prefer games where you start as a complete weakling killing rats for the town blacksmith and slowly building up your power. So maybe AB is for me?

Oh, and Alternate A.I.. Any thoughts on that as well? I heard it makes the game much harder so maybe that is something I should consider.

Any other suggestions/advice for a new Gothic 3 player would be great, but please stay free of the spoilers. Thanks a bunch!

Hey.

I'll answer just one question cuz Im in a hury.

Combat gets better.
Raise your swords skill.

That is all.

Originally Posted by enodenroH
Hey.

I'll answer just one question cuz Im in a hury.

Combat gets better.
Raise your swords skill.

That is all.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear that.

My framerate seems to be capped at 20, with lag spikes and a more steady framerate of 10-15. It's not very smooth at all and not quite playable yet, so if anyone knows how I can fix this I would greatly appreciate it.

Edit - Fixed the framerate! Had to manually set my configurable graphics to high performance for Gothic 3. It wasn't utilizing my GPU, it was using my integrated GPU. Whew. Much better!

Onwards!

There's a sub-forum for the Gothic series, you would probably be better off posting there.

I don't recommend using Alternate A.I. That basically just allows more enemies to attack you at once. It's definitely not something you want for a first-time playthrough. Alternate Balancing is subjective.

The melee combat in Gothic 3 just plain sucks imo, and there's not much you can do about it.

First of all I'd urge you to reconsider playing G3 before the others. While not exactly lore heavy games I definitely think you'll appreciate what's a stake, Myrtana and some of the characters you will run into much less than if you had gone through them chronologically.

That aside:
1) As long as you've got the latest version of the Community Patch installed (v1.75.14) I don't know much you can do. If you've got an SSD you will want the game files there but that's about it.
2) As far as I'm concerned the combat does not get significantly better. Different weapons have very different animations and thus gameplay but the clickfest and the occasional stunlocks are there for good. The main ways of getting around that are
a) Avoid meele combat by playing as a mage or an archer, both viable and IMO quite fun b) Turn on Alternative AI which both reworks the way the opponents fight and add a proper full damage deflecting and attack animation stopping block to the system thus eradicating clickfests an making the whole deal much more intricate.
3) On this one I'm fairly confident that you want it turned ON. I think I've finished the game twice with it and the reworked system is definitely superior. You might want to read the documents the Community Patch team released to get a better idea of how the system works.

Regarding starting as a weakling, I'd say that G1 and G2 are the games for that. By the begining of G3 the hero has killed more orcs and dragons than your average low level RPG character which IMHO is why his starting stats are in the 100s rather than 0 or 1. Don't worry though, no matter which setting you opt for the game will in one way or another prove a challenge (until level ~30).

I'm actually tempted to recommend some of the big G3 mods (or even the very tempting Update Pack) but since I'm completely out of touch with the (predominantly German) modding scene and the current consensus I guess G3 by itself would suffice.

Originally Posted by Kostas
First of all I'd urge you to reconsider playing G3 before the others. While not exactly a lore heavy games I definitely think you'll appreciate what's a stake, Myrtana and some of the characters you will run into much less than if you had gone through them chronologically.

+1

But I already told him that.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I don't recommend using Alternate A.I. That basically just allows more enemies to attack you at once. It's definitely not something you want for a first-time playthrough. Alternate Balancing is subjective.

That's not technically incorrect but I feel it's worth clarifying that the number of enemies attacking you with AltAI turned on depends on your difficulty setting. The default G3 is 1, on easy with AltAI it's also 1, on medium 2 and on difficult 3.

While more challenging (and certainly more involving) I think playing on medium with altAI is certainly viable. If you are careful with your spending of your LPs (as the other Gothics would have taught you to be ) as you pump points into HP and increase your defence, you can look past much of annoying side of the combat.

The AB option is a little better for combat but it might not be best for a first playthrough since it makes it harder to get enough xp for multiple attributes and skills. It's a bit like G2Notr in that way: you have to make every point count and that means you need to know more about the game than you will as a new player (unless you use guides)
Hunting skills and a bow are the easiest way to go at the start with just enough strength to use a halbard when melee is necessary. The best melee weapons require 400 STR and with AB that requires dedicated focus. If you go vanilla, you can switch to magic around level 35 if you want (by then you'll be able to even if you haven't fully prepared for it). It's a long game, level 70 at least.

I don't think there is anything wrong with G3 to start. G2Notr is brutal for a newb and G1 may be too much of a graphical shock. G3 is a good game in its own right and doesn't spoil anything in G1 or 2.

Alternate A.I can actually be toggled on or off during an existing game, so it's possible to just change it if you don't like whatever setting you chose at the start.

Alternate Balancing can not be changed without starting a new game.

I'd suggest reading the CP manual if you haven't already done so.

Okay, I decided to take your guys' advice and play them in chronological order. I'll be posting a new thread over in the Gothic forums so we can chop it up about the game there.

… and iirc, Wulf is your guide in Gothic if you wanna know.
He can help you out.

He loves them Gothic games more then many of us.

Cuz IGN says so…

The game is lengthy.

I've played over 100 hours. Got bored because well, too long.

The first two Gothics are golden masterpieces but the last one is too long. I'll never insist enough. Tooooo lonnnnnnggggg. Got bored. It's a neverending story….

I've gotten through the 1rst in around 30 hours and I think the second might be close to that in time completion but I forget.

The last one too long…. Meh. Good but too long.

I know you have decided to start with G1 which I agree with but I find it confusing when people moan about the combat in G3. I found combat against NPCs was almost always fun. The key for me was learning the shield and making good use of block, stab, strong hit. A two hander was more useful against annoying creatures or the ice spell to freeze them and of course bow early on helped too. There are so many ways you can approach combat that while flawed I still enjoyed it.

I have never tried the content pack but from what I have seen it has immersion breaking english translation in the extra quests etc. Something that is a deal breaker for me.

Since you are starting from the beginning, the worst part about the early Gothics is the control scheme. There is no auto-forward/run button, so you are stuck holding w and using both shift keys for attacks. This isn't bad as far as control schemes go, but it is hell on your hands.

If there was a mod that added a toggle move, that would be something to look in to. If not, take some breaks because I seriously thought these games could damage your hands in marathon sessions.

[QUOTE=BrianOConnell;1061255223]I know you have decided to start with G1 which I agree with but I find it confusing when people moan about the combat in G3. I found combat against NPCs was almost always fun. The key for me was learning the shield and making good use of block, stab, strong hit. A two hander was more useful against annoying creatures or the ice spell to freeze them and of course bow early on helped too. There are so many ways you can approach combat that while flawed I still enjoyed it.
/QUOTE]

Well, I was only "moaning" about my initial first impression. I only played Gothic 3 for 10 minutes, so maybe the combat gets progressively better. At the beginning it felt strange, floaty and was a button masher. Then again, I guess that part of the game is supposed to be pretty easy. I'm reserving judgment until I've sank some time into it, then I'll have a better idea of the combat overall.

Originally Posted by Burress
Since you are starting from the beginning, the worst part about the early Gothics is the control scheme. There is no auto-forward/run button, so you are stuck holding w and using both shift keys for attacks. This isn't bad as far as control schemes go, but it is hell on your hands.

If there was a mod that added a toggle move, that would be something to look in to. If not, take some breaks because I seriously thought these games could damage your hands in marathon sessions.

I actually use a Logitech gaming mouse and have put the action button (CTRL) on one of the buttons, as well as my inventory and character sheets and 4 quick keys. It's working well so far.

I can't imagine playing with the default controls. Too awkward for me. I guess you would get used to them after awhile but I much prefer utilizing my gaming mouse.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Well, I was only "moaning" about my initial first impression. I only played Gothic 3 for 10 minutes, so maybe the combat gets progressively better. At the beginning it felt strange, floaty and was a button masher. Then again, I guess that part of the game is supposed to be pretty easy. I'm reserving judgment until I've sank some time into it, then I'll have a better idea of the combat overall.

I wasn't responding to you fluent. I have seen many folks here and elsewhere say the combat is terrible. I just wanted to throw in with my take. I prefer to advise on how someone playing G3 for the first time might get more enjoyment out of the combat than simply call it a stinker. As gamers I think we all forgive certain things in games, can ignore flaws for whatever reason. It's often different things we each can ignore and for the most part I was easily able to ignore G3's flaws while I might not be able to ignore other kinds of flaws in other games. I would like to see more games like G3 made. To me a game like this with many flaws that can still give me a lot of joy is simply an argument for doing it better next time rather than just saying it can't ever work.

Originally Posted by BrianOConnell
I wasn't responding to you fluent. I have seen many folks here and elsewhere say the combat is terrible. I just wanted to throw in with my take. I prefer to advise on how someone playing G3 for the first time might get more enjoyment out of the combat than simply call it a stinker. As gamers I think we all forgive certain things in games, can ignore flaws for whatever reason. It's often different things we each can ignore and for the most part I was easily able to ignore G3's flaws while I might not be able to ignore other kinds of flaws in other games. I would like to see more games like G3 made. To me a game like this with many flaws that can still give me a lot of joy is simply an argument for doing it better next time rather than just saying it can't ever work.

Compared to Gothic 1&2 and Risen, the combat in Gothic 3 is terrible, but you're welcome to your own opinion on that of course.

I don't seen anyone here saying not to play G3 or that the game sucks. It has some great qualities, but the melee combat isn't one of them. I still think it's a good experience overall.. just not on the same level as Gothic 1&2.

Use magic. Magic works well in Gothic 3, melee doesn't. Melee is great in Gothic 1 and 2 though, once you get used to the controls.

Strangest thing, really. Melee was great in the first two Gothics - and though Risen was pretty good too, they've yet to make it work as well as the first games since G2.

They don't really need to do anything with it, though it would be nice to see a proper evolution. I wonder why they feel they have to change it all the time.

That's true, they keep changing it for some reason. I really thought they would simply improve the gameplay of Risen 1 (which was quite solid), but they decided to change it completely yet again in Risen 2. It makes no sense. I wonder who they're getting feedback from? PR folks or some such thing?

No idea… I guess they became "confused" after Gothic 3, and sort of lost their solid direction.

Risen had good melee combat, though archery was rather weak and half-assed, IIRC.

Risen 2 was, of course, a more "piratey" game, which might be why they felt they had to make it more about fencing or whatever.

But it shouldn't be that hard to keep the principles of the first games intact - and just adapt them to a new setting.

Oh well, maybe Risen 3 will be better.