What will be Bioshock's impact on the cRPG?

Originally Posted by Moriendor
Yep. Must be on a recruiting spree for his anti-everything commie party or something like that .

So I was living in a Communist country (while residing in Bowling Green, Ohio) during the golden era of Rpg's (1995-2002) ? Hmmm, interesting.

Apparently, you are under the continual delusion that anyone who opposes the current corporatism and FPS-Action-MMORPG monopoly is a Communist.

Oh well, I guess that makes you a Fascist, in the tradition of Mussolini, Pinochet and Hitler.

:->

Now get back to that FPS clickfest, before you suffer severe eye candy withdrawl… and keep telling yourself FPS=RPG , FPS=RPG, FPS=RPG !

I don't think the underwater city idea is anything new either. You just don't get to see much of this old style fiction nowadays.

The main thing I think about Bioshock is the SecuROM thing. The XBOX version was cracked on day 1 and available for download while the PC version seems uncracked atm. I see the PC version selling well aswell so its possible that the PC market could actually gain something from this. As a safer and prosperous market to publish.

Originally Posted by woges
I see the PC version selling well aswell so its possible that the PC market could actually gain something from this. As a safer and prosperous market to publish.

The PC version was actually in the top 10 games sold last week on any platform (in the US) … and I can't remember the last time *that* happened.

Originally Posted by Arpyjee
…[snipped some very logical conclusion about how I'm Hitler based on a comment that was made by me in jest]…]
…
…
Now get back to that FPS clickfest, before you suffer severe eye candy withdrawl… and keep telling yourself FPS=RPG , FPS=RPG, FPS=RPG !

You are an amusing little one, Arpyjee . Are you Roqa's little bro?

I'm guessing WOW or Morrowind. You probably have to go back to Myst before that.

Actually, haven't the half-a-million Sims expansions made the list regularly?

Originally Posted by dteowner
Actually, haven't the half-a-million Sims expansions made the list regularly?

No - they dominate the PC charts but never crack the consoles … it seems like even top selling PC games sell much more slowly than consoles.

Originally Posted by Arpyjee
Genuine Rpg's (like Fallout & Baldur's Gate)

In your book those are 'genuine RPGs'? *shrugs* In my book, the only genuine RPGs are of the pen & paper kind, and all the games you mentioned - Baldur's Gate, Oblivion and the rest of the ilk - are just CRPGs, nothing more. Some are more entertaining (System Shock, p.ex. ) than others (like, for example, Baldur's Gate). That's it.
I bet there are others in whose opinion the only real RPGs are LARP games *another shrug*. To each their own. As long as they don't get obsessive about it.

Originally Posted by Arpyjee
Genuine Rpg's (like Fallout & Baldur's Gate) have been (nearly) systematically destroyed by the corporate copy & paste FPS model, based on Morrowind, then Oblivion, Stalker, System Shock, Bioshock and many others….
The rational alternative, is a boycott of the greed-based corporate copy & paste Pseudo-Rpg scam.

Honestly I just don't believe that all that's keeping "genuine RPG's" from being produced is a corporate scam. I'll agree with the greed angle. I've deplored it and the way the traditional rpg is perceived as niche in a lot of posts (that you may not have read, so I'll let you off on that one . )

But I'm not ready to stop buying and playing good games while waiting for the Holy Grail to come along, so I have to put up with change. It's a fact of life.

It's the FPS-Action-MMORPG era.

Yes, it is--and so rpgs need to find their feet and start competing if they want to survive. This doesn't mean they have to become the "enemy', but they have to be as good.

I agree that the large corporate conglomerates are not doing rpg gamers a service by insisting that all games be huge cross-platform money makers first, and quality, authentic games last.

But I think cRPG's themselves have a share in the problem. As we've discussed here on the forums before, the new millenium has produced very little that's new in the rpg. It's become an increasingly limited, formulaic exercise repeating well-worn game themes like the Chosen One, the amnesiac hero, the plot by the evil whatever to destroy the known universe, and often is no more than a beat the bad guy and assemble the artifact chase. Indie games are not a great exception to this, so it isn't all a corporate plot.

And you can keep facilitating it, subsequently eradicating genuine Rpg's, by purchasing, promoting and discussing the FPS clickfests.

I can understand your point about purchasing and promoting games that you feel threaten what you prize in rpgs, but I don't understand how discussing what's going on, how rpg's can be improved or impacted by something, facilitates the erosion of the genre. Discussion is how people communicate.

Worshiping at the shrine of games past is not the answer if you want to see more RPG's. Making better games that push the envelope, whether by adapting and reinventing what works in other genres( FPS=RPG is a claim I never made, btw) or by being a more creative and competent developer, can only help bring the genre out of the doldrums.

In My Humble Opinion, of course.

Originally Posted by Arpyjee
It's the FPS-Action-MMORPG era.

I wholeheartly agree with that, although not so much with the rest.

The Demographics are different now it's really not much to do with the actual games. Fact is there is a broader audience for computer games now then pretty much anything else. This is not how it used to be. Its big money now, big big money. The customer base has moved and unfortunately so has the industry.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I wholeheartly agree with that, although not so much with the rest.

That's fine with me, Alrik. I'm not trying to speak for the whole world. The thread is a question that can have more than just my answer.

We're all here because we're interested in and care about RPGs (and like to run our mouths about it. )

Oh well, This forum looks to be dominated by folks who are willing to support and empower the FPS C-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-clickfest Action monopoly.

Shame.

Originally Posted by Arpyjee
Oh well, This forum looks to be dominated by folks who are willing to support and empower the FPS C-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-clickfest Action monopoly.

Shame.

If you say so.

Originally Posted by magerette
If you say so.

I say so because it's true. Verifiably, empirically, logically true.

To sarcastically dismiss the said statement of truth is impulsive, oblivious, irrational and wrong.

It was to be expected, though. The ever increasing trend and pattern of coddling and promoting the FPS-Action clickfests has been evident around here for quite sometime… along with declining activity at the Codex.

Apparently, most of the CRPG traditionalists could no longer muster up the courage and rally the energy and fortitude needed to preserve the genre, so it's been lost to the FPS-Action-Pseudo-Rpg clickfest.

Maybe I underrated the addiction to eye candy and the love for the twitchy first-person straw-perspective, which has obviously even permeated this once heralded CRPG ground.

But if you and others would rather close your eyes to reality… go right ahead.

good thing i'm listening to music--otherwise
i might hear the echo
reverberating off the walls
a lonely transmission

Originally Posted by Arpyjee
I say so because it's true. Verifiably, empirically, logically true.

Couple things:
- You cannot 'prove' these things you say, you can only point to evidence supporting your claims. Such evidence will be monolithically one-sided, and others will point to evidence to the contrary.
- Even so, the question is about the impact of a FPS on RPG. You obviously don't like FPS, or anything in a RPG that doesn't scream 'I could have happened in 1985!' as it taints the purity of your hallowed personal vision of a RPG.
- What is the 'shit line'? When does a game go from good to crap? 80 hours? 60 hours? 40 hours? Is time your one metric? Or whether or not player skills dominate character skills?
- Why don't you supply some context - RPG's you love, those you hate, other genres you enjoy and so on so we can have some meaning around the sweeping generalizations you insist on making.

Finally installed Bioshock last night and just finished playing it for about 3-1\2 hours.

Not as impressed as I thought I'd be.

I'm not going to rant about it, especially since my opinion could change once I get further into it, but to make a long story short this game is nothing special.

Compared to System Shock 1&2, Bioshock is very linear. I know this will change later in the game, but System Shock allowed you to explore in any direction right from the start. There are also way too many invisible barriers in the game.

The controls are definitely dumbed down compared to the SS games, or even most modern FPS games for that matter. Only 1 movement speed? You can't lean around corners??

And what's up with all the hand holding? This game gives you way too much guidance, like the devs assumed the general population is a bunch of idiots or something. I have everything turned off in the game options, Adaptive Training, Quest Arrow, etc, yet I still have a constant stream of hints and information popping up on my screen, constantly breaking the immersion factor for me.

On a positive note I must say that the game(Unreal 3 engine) is very well optimized, I didn't expect it to run so smoothly, even with a fairly high end system. I have every setting on high and the game feels like it's running at close to 60fps, this is at 1280x1024 with vsync enabled. Why can't more developers take the time to optimize their engines like this?

As far as impact on the crpg genre is concerned, I don't see why it would have much. Like Moriendor said, there's nothing incredibly unique or original about the game, at least from what I've seen so far.

Originally Posted by Arpyjee
I say so because it's true. Verifiably, empirically, logically true.

To sarcastically dismiss the said statement of truth is impulsive, oblivious, irrational and wrong.

I guess you disregard feelings and emotions, then.

Sorry, although I agree with what I've stated above, you appear to me much more bitter about recent developments in the RPG area than I do.

Originally Posted by woges
The Demographics are different now it's really not much to do with the actual games. Fact is there is a broader audience for computer games now then pretty much anything else. This is not how it used to be. Its big money now, big big money. The customer base has moved and unfortunately so has the industry.

Two not uninteresting articles for those capable of the German language :

GC : Schlichte Spiele für die Massen

"Oma Hardcore im God-Mode"

First title means roughly translated "simple games for the masses" , and the second … well, you just need to know that "Oma" is a short German word for "Grandmother", and "im" is a shortened form of "in dem" = "in the".

Well, I obviously should have titled this thread--What will be the impact of Bioshock etc --IF ANY.
I honestly hope it doesn't hurt cRPG's in any way. It's already a diminishing area of attention for developers, but if we get some added focus on a strong realized game world and some eerie atmosphere out of it, I'll be happy.

Thanks to all who took the time to air their opinions.