Age of Decadence - Video Preview @ IndieRPGs

Originally Posted by Archangel
So a guy got murdered under my watch and you expect a martial class to not use martial skills against the murderer?

I expect a good fighter to kill the assassin and then kill the thugs and then go back to the thieves guild to have a drink and ask for a job.

I expect a weak fighter to think twice before attacking people who do violence for a living.

If you let players choose a starting class and change story based on that you don't punish players for choosing normal options. If the mercenary with no social skills tries to meddle in social affairs then you punish him, same for a merchant that tries to fight.

Let's try a different angle.

You select Mercenary and then give him random stats and skills (not saying that that's exactly what you did but new players tend to spread points thin). Should he be able to kill the assassin and the thugs simply because it says mercenary on his character sheet?

I gave him focus in one faster weapon and defense (and shields). As I died first time to the assassin, second guy was pure combat.

I guess I'm the only one looking forward to dying horribly.

Well, some games are just not for some people, it'd be interesting to have Archangel play dark souls and see what kind of feedback he'd give it

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
Well, some games are just not for some people, it'd be interesting to have Archangel play dark souls and see what kind of feedback he'd give it

I would but I didn't find combat in TW2 fun and I quit TW2 half way as a result.

I will stick with my RTwP RPGs, proper turn based RPGs and my Grim Dawns.

Well I played as a mercenary and managed to beat the assassin and the three thugs in less than 10 tries.

You need to make use of everything at your disposal including nets and bolas.

Keep some for the thugs if you want the merchant to survive too.

Nets are very strong in this game….

I love that there are nets in AoD. As a kid, I used to play some Avalon Hill-type board game about gladitorial fights that had nets in it. Glad i finally get a chance to throw some again.

Yeah, they're rarely used if at all in games, even though they are very powerful in small fights, even as a distraction.

VDweller:

Your game sounds awesome. I love how you put Archangel in his place post after post (jk, Archangel ). But seriously, the game sounds challenging and like something completely different than what people are used to nowadays. I love the philosophy you are displaying. The fact that not every enemy in the game is there for you to bully through at level 1 is a great change of pace. Unfortunately, so many gamers are used to doing that that it's probably going to take some time to get used to your style. I wish you success!

When I'm back into gaming mode I will check this one out

Well now that you called me out by name I have a duty to defend it (although I planned to not post here anymore).
I don't see how he put anything in its place. We just have a different way of looking at fun. I have been a GM in different PnP campaigns for 19 years now and I never done to my player what he does in this game. I also never let them do what they want without a consequence. Strict but fair is my way of thinking. Plenty of fools died because of stupid actions, I just as a GM never set up situations where I offered to player paths that looked like they would choose it just to punish them immediately for it.
And I seen GMs that run games like this game is structured. I guess some people like it, I think it is very bad.
I prefer BG1 system, you can easily die but you got enough tools and control that you don't feel it was unfair if you did. I also don't like modern game where you basically got no chance of failure. AoD for me goes over the strict but fair line.

Different people like different things, for different reasons. End of story.

Personally, I don't think AoD is my kind of game - but I appreciate the effort, and I know what kind of investment is involved in making a game, so I can't help but admire the work.

Also, I have to say I find it to be an interesting take on the genre that seems to not compromise a whole lot.

I like that kind of approach.

Archangel,

I think the main issue you have is that it doesn't explain that combat is dangerously dangerous.

People who played Gothic at first said the same thing when that scavenger at the start of the game killed them 10 times in a row before they mastered the controls or just decided to run past it.

In AoD, you need to use everything in your arsenal to beat people in fights.

Mercenaries often run away from fights, because they end up not caring about anything but the money. As Vince explained, you are just a bouncer at the start of the game, maybe a strong one, but you will have a difficult time beating 3 people at once…

Expecting to beat 3 people at once from the get go is exactly what you describe as :

I also don't like modern game where you basically got no chance of failure.

AoD does not let you beat them easily, but I promise you that it's not only possible, but even easily achievable with a pure fighter.

I don't have a problem with tough combat, just that they game pushes you to another fight without letting you recover from the last one. I did after all come back to beat the assassin the second time. BTW, I understand I can repeat these fights until I get enough good RNG rolls to succeed but that means nothing.
In BG1, I would change my spells, or use ranged weapon or go find a companion or use guards to help me (like the fight vs mage in Friendly Arms Inn, it is much easier when two guards are attacking him as well).

Originally Posted by Archangel
I don't have a problem with tough combat, just that they game pushes you to another fight without letting you recover from the last one. I did after all come back to beat the assassin the second time. BTW, I understand I can repeat these fights until I get enough good RNG rolls to succeed but that means nothing.
In BG1, I would change my spells, or use ranged weapon or go find a companion or use guards to help me (like the fight vs mage in Friendly Arms Inn, it is much easier when two guards are attacking him as well).

That's what I'm saying though. Once you understand the combat system, you will be able to beat the assassin and the thugs 10 out 10 times (or worst case 9 if you are really unlucky).

This is not an RNG problem.

You might not beat them all if you pick bad stats, but with a pure fighter build, you would.

Also ensure that you do not mix dodge and block in your build as they are basically mutually exclusive…

I must say that I'm intrigued by these descriptions. This approach of game design is interesting.
But I don't know how I will finally react. Might be I'll feel the same way as Archangel. It depends if the game can motivate me enough to invest time to really understand the combat system. If the game can't motivate me to do it and thus I fail in combat, me and the game simply aren't compatible.
I'll give it a try for sure.

Originally Posted by Archangel
I don't have a problem with tough combat, just that they game pushes you to another fight without letting you recover from the last one.

It's part of the challenge. Believe it or not, killing the assassin is easy once you figure out the basics. Killing the assassin and still have enough hit points left to kill the thugs is much harder (but not impossible).

Basically, killing the thugs is an optional challenge. If we forced you to do it, it would be bad design, but we didn't. You can decline and you can walk away. You say that your honor prevents you? Well, then your story is a short one. It's a story of a man who wanted to be honorable and it got him killed. The end.

I did after all come back to beat the assassin the second time. BTW, I understand I can repeat these fights until I get enough good RNG rolls to succeed but that means nothing.

If your stats/skills and understanding of the system are low (it's not chess but it's not something you can figure out instantly either), you'll rely on RNG and complain about it.

Like I said, once you know what you're doing, you can beat the assassin and the thugs 10 out of 10, no matter how unlucky your rolls are.

Originally Posted by Morrandir
I'll give it a try for sure.

Let us know what you think. Any questions, ask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOhnrzuN8ds
^ Watch this video first, it explains the combat system.

Originally Posted by VDweller
It's part of the challenge. Believe it or not, killing the assassin is easy once you figure out the basics. Killing the assassin and still have enough hit points left to kill the thugs is much harder (but not impossible).

Basically, killing the thugs is an optional challenge. If we forced you to do it, it would be bad design, but we didn't. You can decline and you can walk away. You say that your honor prevents you? Well, then your story is a short one. It's a story of a man who wanted to be honorable and it got him killed. The end.

It is also a story of a man that has better games to spend money on. Like the ones that actually let him roleplay and not punish him for it (I bought both WL2 and PoE).

And I wish you best of luck with your niche gaming community (even more niche than mine).

Well, yeah, like many people would attest, Skyrim is the ultimate RPG in terms of roleplaying whatever your character you would want.

AoD isn't that type of RP experience.
You are very limited by your skills.

A merchant in AoD with bad trading skills will not succeed in the "Trade" checks, even though he is a merchant by background. He just is a bad merchant…

A thief who has no sneak skill in AoD won't be able to sneak past the guards even though he calls himself a thief. Maybe he steals by bashing heads and only then steals from people…

Your mercenary who has a lot of honour but apparently not good enough fighting skills will die trying to kill 3 armed thugs on his own + very weak merchant with nothing more than a small dagger and no weapon skills…

Originally Posted by VDweller
Let us know what you think. Any questions, ask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOhnrzuN8ds
^ Watch this video first, it explains the combat system.

I will when it's released.
Too little time and too many games in the coming weeks and months, so I refrain from taking part in EA and betatesting.