Thoughts/discussion/first impressions of Pillars of Eternity!

I agree the back and forth travel in PoE is slow and annoying. I am already finding it tiresome.

One thing is the world design is much more interesting. For example, PoE has a pantheon of gods, each with several aspects, that actually make appearances in the world, rather than a single Maker, that is absent in DA:I.

I had trouble with the DA:I combat interface too, at the start. It took me a long time to get happy with the DA:I combat. I think I actually adapted quicker to the PoE combat, since it was so similar to all the other DnD RTtwP pause games.

If you didn't like those enough to play them, then I can imagine PoE combat would not appeal to you. Frankly, RTwP is my lease favorite, and I'd prefer turn based much more. But both PoE and DA:I are RTwP, sadly.

Visual immersion is very nice, but it's secondary to deeper gameplay and world design to me.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
One thing is the world design is much more interesting. For example, PoE has a pantheon of gods, each with several aspects, that actually make appearances in the world, rather than a single Maker, that is absent in DA:I.

You're probably right - and I appreciate their efforts to make that part of the world come alive.

I guess I'm just not really into the lore at the level that would make me care about such things that much.

I tried reading some of the books, but I get kinda bored. Same goes for DA:I.

I need to be really invested in the experience as a whole, to go that extra mile and read all the lore stuff.

I actually did that in the first Dragon Age, because I found the writing to be quite good. But after DA2, I kinda lost the will to invest myself.

DA:I is better, but it still smacks a bit of "generic" stuff.

PoE is decent as well, but it's still pretty obvious it's a first game in a potential series - and much of it feels like they're trying a bit hard to get your attention, like the endless overdone "dream" stuff when you click NPCs with yellow name tags. It feels a bit improvised to me, but I might not have given it a fair shot.

I had trouble with the DA:I combat interface too, at the start. It took me a long time to get happy with the DA:I combat. I think I actually adapted quicker to the PoE combat, since it was so similar to all the other DnD RTtwP pause games.

Really? I found it very straightforward. They streamlined the way you setup skill priorities - and I found it worked out quite well.

In fact, my only problem was controlling my own character - because, as a melee Rogue, it was a major pain getting into position and timing your skills - as the game was a bitch about distances and such. My tank and party did exactly what they were supposed to, almost all of the time.

If you didn't those enough to play them, then I can imagine PoE combat would not appeal to you. Frankly, RTwP is my lease favorite, and I'd prefer turn based much more. But both PoE and DA:I are RTwP, sadly.

No, I don't really like RTwP much - and I also largely prefer turn-based combat.

I don't mind RTwP if it's handled well, but that's quite rare. It worked well in Dragon Age and games like Dungeon Siege 2, I found. Well, mostly.

The only problem with turn-based is battle fatigue, which would have been a huge problem in both DA:I and PoE unless they heavily reduced the amount of filler combat.

I rarely used the AI. It just wasn't engaging enough for me to watch the fireworks without controlling the characters directly. Not really interested in watching bots duke it out.

Regarding world design, DA:I is very low on mystical stuff and mysteries, which is the stuff that makes me want to find out more about the world, and eggs me on to play. PoE has a lot more of that stuff.

What motivated me to play DA:I was to mechanically explore all areas, not really learning much else about the universe.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
I rarely used the AI. It just wasn't engaging enough for me to watch the fireworks without controlling the characters directly. Not really interested in watching bots duke it out.

I tend to focus on my own character, and I don't really care for party member micromanagment in a real-time environment. I guess that's one reason you like PoE more than I do

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
The only problem with turn-based is battle fatigue, which would have been a huge problem in both DA:I and PoE unless they heavily reduced the amount of filler combat.

I don't think that it has to be a problem. I mean there are games like Jagged Alliance and I haven't seen anyone complaining about too much fillter combat in there.

Or to say it differently: If the game mechanics around the combat and within the combat support TB, then the combat itself also doesn't get boring.

To get back to Jagged Alliance: You wanted to end combats as efficient as possible as you could not just "rest". You had to invest time and material to heal up your units. Time in which additional opponents might take over a sector again, and time you pay the mercenary for.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I tend to focus on my own character, and I don't really care for party member micromanagment in a real-time environment. I guess that's one reason you like PoE more than I do

By the end of DA:I, I was over with combat in general, so I let them fly on autotpilot with their OP crafted gear at level 24 just to finish faster.

In general, the less filler combat, the better. Right now I am not seeing that much filler combat in PoE. It's mostly is associated with the story and quests, so far.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
I don't think that it has to be a problem. I mean there are games like Jagged Alliance and I haven't seen anyone complaining about too much fillter combat in there.

It depends on your tolerance for it, I suppose.

I have a relatively low tolerance for endless combat - especially when it doesn't reward you with XP, which PoE doesn't do much.

As for Jagged Alliance, the game was based almost entirely around tactical combat - which means combat doesn't get in the way of other aspects of the game, like the story.

So, you kinda know what to expect when sitting down.

I don't know about you, but I had severe battle fatigue in ToEE - but the actual combat system was much more interesting than the one in PoE, regardless.

Or to say it differently: If the game mechanics around the combat and within the combat support TB, then the combat itself also doesn't get boring.

You can't generalise like that. Even the best combat systems can get boring if combat is too frequent in a game heavy on story and exploration. Again, it's about your tolerance for combat.

For instance, some people adore games like Wizardry 8 - while I think it's dreadfully dull because of the endless combat. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
By the end of DA:I, I was over with combat in general, so I let them fly on autotpilot with their OP crafted gear at level 24 just to finish faster.

In general, the less filler combat, the better. Right now I am not seeing that much filler combat in PoE. It mostly is associated with the story and quests, so far.

I found plenty of filler combat in wilderness areas and Endless Paths, but it's not as bad as BG.

But it's not a big problem, as combat is fast and furious. That's why I think turn-based would bog it down a bit too much. Simply too much combat - and there's not enough of a reward for it.

Compared to DA:I, the amount of filler combat in PoE is teensy, like a drop in the bucket…. No respawning being one of the big reasons. And that's probably why I'm liking it so much more.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Compared to DA:I, the mount of filler combat in PoE is teensy, like a drop in the bucket…. No respawning being one of the big reasons. And that's probably why I'm liking it so much more.

True, there's more combat in DA:I - but since the party AI is so efficient, I didn't mind much. Well, except for those rare cases where enemies would respawn right in front of you - which I still can't believe was intended.

Thankfully, you can easily get around enemies in many cases - so I didn't mind much.

However, if you want to fully explore each area, there is no getting around those enemies that are there. So yeah, there's a lot more forced trash battles on you in DA:I if you want to fully explore. But exploration is its attraction, right? But, with a big downside. It's like someone puking in your souffle.

I also get the feeling that DA:I is MUCH bigger than PoE.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
However, if you want to fully explore each area, there is no getting around those enemies that are there. So yeah, there's a lot more forced trash battles on you in DA:I if you want to fully explore. But exploration is its attraction, right? But, with a big downside. It's like someone puking in your souffle.

I also get the feeling that DA:I is MUCH bigger than PoE.

I don't have exploration OCD - I don't have to cover every corner, and I can always come back when I'm in that mood.

But DA:I gives you XP for combat, which motivates me a bit more than PoE - where it often feels like a waste of time.

However, I don't think turning it into a competition will change that you enjoy PoE more and I enjoy DA:I more. No big deal, right?

Both are good games, and I don't think they're worlds apart in any case. I certainly don't mind people going nuts over PoE - that's a wonderful thing for them. I wish I could share in that celebration, but I'll have to settle for just liking it fine.

Whether or not it's OCD, there are more trash mobs forced on you in DA:I than PoE, because there is more to explore and respawns, right? My point is that all that trash ruins (well, not completely ruins, per se, but severely mars) one of the most enjoyable aspects of DA:I, the beautiful 3 d environment exploration.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
That said, this is 2015 and they could have done so much more with this game. Even as a foundation for a series of games - which I'm sure PoE will become - it's simply not exciting enough for someone like myself. I want progress - and I'm not that keen on reliving the past, even if it's slightly improved.

So much more how?

I'm not seeing where the 9/10s or 10/10s are coming from, and I pride myself that I'm pretty good at putting myself in the shoes of other people. The only way I can see those justified is if the game changes significantly in Chapters 2 and 3. Perhaps the story goes wild or something? If not, then nostalgia DOES have a lot to do with it - and I think people have simply been dying to revisit this genre, and the initial surge of happiness at seeing a new game using it, is what's causing those 1-2 points to be added to scores.

LOL. You are funny. It is like Hitler saying "I was sure those Jews wanted what I did do them"

I haven't played DA:I, but I much prefer the micromanaged approach of PoE in games like this, which is one of my favorite aspects, actually. I think when you have AI scripts running, you can probably go through the game on auto-pilot without ever using the pause-and-play combat.

For some, that approach would be superior, I guess, but for those of us who like to manage things a bit more, I appreciate the Pillars approach a lot.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Whether or not it's OCD, there are more trash mobs forced on you in da:I than PoE, because there is more to explore and respawns, right? My point is that all that trash ruins one of the most enjoyable aspects of da:I, the beautiful 3 d environment exploration.

I don't know why you want me to repeat that there's more combat in DA:I, but I can do it: yes, there's more combat in DA:I.

I liked combat more, because it was easy to manage my party and I got XP for my troubles - but it wasn't exactly great combat. Sort of mediocre to decent, where I think PoE combat is weak to mediocre because of the lack of decent script options. Well, until you get to a certain level of power - where you don't really need to micromanage, and that's when combat is ok - but also not very exciting, because then the challenge is mostly gone.

If the exploration was ruined for you in DA:I, then I'm sorry. As I said, I don't have exploration OCD, so I didn't feel like it was forced upon me - as I didn't feel forced to explore each and every corner. Certainly, it was no more forced upon me than almost all other RPGs that have combat encounters placed around maps.

I felt like the world was beautiful and varied - and I could explore at will. Combat was part of that, and it didn't ruin anything for me - except for the rare respawns that kept coming, which was utterly lame, but I think I saw that only two times. In PoE, combat is also forced upon me - and since combat doesn't work as well and doesn't reward much in the way of XP, it's a bigger problem - but not a huge deal either. I still enjoy the exploration.

In terms of visual variety and sheer immersion, I think PoE is vastly inferior - and most of the areas are rather dull looking in comparison to DA:I. To me, that's a big deal - and it's probably the biggest reason I enjoyed it so much.

DArt, you sound really invested in defending DA:I. Are you sure you're being objective here?

Originally Posted by Fluent
DArt, you sound really invested in defending DA:I. Are you sure you're being objective here?

That's funny, because I feel like there's a lot more people defending PoE

But please don't talk about being objective like you know what the word means

What I'm doing is having a talk with Thrasher about why I like DA:I a bit more than PoE, and why he's the other way around - and it seems it has almost become a competition.

That's not exactly how it works with me, though, and it certainly wasn't my intention.

I wonder why it's not ok that I like DA:I a bit more, though? Is PoE really so important that people can't like other games more?

If that's the case, there's a pretty big chance you'll be miffed when TW3 comes out. At least, I'm pretty sure I'll like that even more than DA:I.

Why can't we just be happy there are so many good RPGs out these days? I know I'm enjoying that.

I don't know why you keep bringing up OCD. It's like you have to jigger a little knife in me. The point is that the joy of exploration and enjoyment of the pretty 3-d environment in DA:I is messed up by all the trash mobs, especially when they respawn on you. Can't really say it any simpler than that.

Thankfully, PoE doesn't have this particular design flaw…

To me, feeling forced to explore everything is like having exploration OCD. I have no interest in placing knives in anyone in real life.

As for your opinion, I got that the first time. But it's not my opinion.