Thoughts/discussion/first impressions of Pillars of Eternity!

Originally Posted by Kordanor
The Rogue should actually be a better ranged character than the Ranger. Just because he can apply everything from ranged. The hunter feels kinda meh, especially because you need to position your pet right. The pet made it quite painful to me to play the Ranger.

Besides of making it a little harder to flank enemies (but you can use spells for that as mentioned before) there is really no downside for the rogue being ranged.

In a game with RTwP mostly everything is relative up to a certain point.
As I mentioned in other threads: While in TB Combat you have to have Skill > Difficulty to solve a fight, in RTwP you have (Skill + Pause Frequency) > Difficulty to solve it.
Up to a degree, where you do not profit from additional pauses, which is probably around each 1/3 second. And this is only required if the difficulty is really hard, or you want to be really effective (which the game doesn't require).
I am playing on torment difficulty. And with less pause it would be quite impossible to do some of the fights. I think the micro management is okish, but of course it would have been a much, much better gameflow if the system was turnbased.
The way I play 30-45 seconds of combat can turn into fights of 10-15 minutes real time.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think having Backstab require close range and invisibility/sneak is a great feature for ranged rogues - and I most certainly don't agree that flanking enemies consistently is "a little more difficult" - it's a LOT more difficult, even when using spells. Rangers can use their key abilities at range as well, so I don't see the difference you're talking about. Both have abilities that require close range.

It's great that the Torment level is hard - but it doesn't take away that combat is needlessly messy and it's a hassle to use your characters as they're meant to be used.

There's no inherent skill requirement associated with TB vs RTwP - as it's exclusively about implementation. For instance, you need a lot more skill in ToEE than you do in DA:I - because DA:I has mostly automated combat, and ToEE requires a relatively deep understanding of a complex system. On the other hand, I'd say PoE requires a lot more skill than DA:I as well, and they're both RTwP systems.

You're a fan of everything PoE and you can't seem to appreciate it has flaws.

That's cool, but I can't agree.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think having Backstab require close range and invisibility/sneak is a great feature for ranged rogues - and I most certainly don't agree that flanking enemies consistently is "a little more difficult" - it's a LOT more difficult, even when using spells. Rangers can use their key abilities at range as well, so I don't see the difference you're talking about. Both have abilities that require close range.

Backstab is a horrible talent overall on high difficulties where the initial strike isn't enough to win a fight. I did not take this talent yet on my rogue - who is a melee rogue. Yes, it would be even worse with ranged ones. But I wouldn't even take it for melee rogues.

There's no inherent skill requirement associated with TB vs RTwP - as it's exclusively about implementation. For instance, you need a lot more skill in ToEE than you do in DA:I - because DA:I has mostly automated combat, and ToEE requires a relatively deep understanding of a complex system. On the other hand, I'd say PoE requires a lot more skill than DA:I as well, and they're both RTwP systems.

I don't think you do understand what I wrote. Maybe I also wasn't clear enough.
What I mean is that in TB combat you ONLY have the skill component.
In RTwP the frequency of pressing pause plays a huge factor in the difficulty.

Lets say you have a hard fight in PoE infront of you.
Now play it without pressing pause a single time. It will be extremely hard, right?
Now play it again with pressing pause every 3 seconds - it gets significantly easier.
Now play it again and press pause every 0.3 seconds - it gets significantly easier again.

There is a limit of benefit you can gain through frequency. But that limit is somewhere between 0.2 and 0.5 seconds.
This limit is basically dictated by the amount of spells you can use, and their timers, and the benefit of movement. So if all your characters only had one spell in each fight and positioning would be irrelevant, then pressing pause each 0.3s would not bring you any benefits.
That's why the RTwP System works quite well in games like FTL or Dungeon of the Endless.

In fledged out RPGs like PoE, Dragon Age 1 (didnt play inquisition) and Drakensang it becomes a mess instead.

Of course there is still a difference in difficulty between these games. I am just saying that the fequency of pause is a factor.

You're a fan of everything PoE and you can't seem to appreciate it has flaws.

I think I said often enough that I dislike the RTwP system. And just because I am saying that it's rather easy to play a rogue efficiently in PoE doesn't make me a "fan of everything". Not in my book at least.
Compared with DA:O and Drakensang River of time, PoE imho has the best implementation of combat.
But that is also because in DA:O it was extremely easy to exploit enemies (archers didnt come around corners, not all spells required Line of Sight, you could easily block doors via runes and so on) and in Drakensang the Aggro system was completely flawed, so if you had A attacked by B, B attacked by C, C attacked by D - and you moved A, the whole battlefield was in movement like a hive of ants.
I finished both of these games on hardest difficulties though.

And I also played NWN2, but while I don't remember enough details anymore to make a solid case, I remember that I stopped plalying it due to the combat and horrible AI, which prefered to run into traps than to participate in combat.

Ok, then I did indeed misunderstand, sorry.

Seems we agree about RTwP then

As for NWN2, I completely agree that AI was pretty bad. But there's a mod out for it that fixes somes of the serious AI issues. Still far from perfect though.

Hmm, what's that mod. I've been thinking of doing a replay.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
No respawning being one of the big reasons.

Wait what?
Josh, after insisting on having it in F:NV, in the end didn't put that thing in Eternity? OMG

10/10!!!

Originally Posted by Kordanor
And I also played NWN2, but while I don't remember enough details anymore to make a solid case, I remember that I stopped plalying it due to the combat and horrible AI, which prefered to run into traps than to participate in combat.

What's going on recently, every week I'm finding a new best friend on this site!

I find the companions to be hit and miss.

Aloth=boring, give me Sand.
Eder=alright
Kana=horrible
Durance=insane but can be funny sometimes
Ranger gal=pretty quiet
Fox-best companion by far because it doesn't speak
I haven't met the rest. Where is Grieving Mother?

Originally Posted by sakichop
Hmm, what's that mod. I've been thinking of doing a replay.

I don't remember the name, but it's "Companion AI" something - and I believe there are others as well.

I am somewhat neutral about the companions. What bothers me most is actually the huge amount of text Durance and the Grieving mother bring with them.

Some text is fine, lots of text is ok, if it has some influence. Or if you have some influence on them.

Story wise I like Eder and Sagani ,the Ranger girl.
Aloth is mostly just boring.
Durance and The Grieving mother are mystery characters. Story is ok, but there is tons of text with just tiny bits of information and no real interactivity.
The Druid and Kana - haven't seen enough from them to judge it.
The Paladin…interesting background.

In general I found the integrations of companions rather bad compared to Bioware games. Yes, they have a quest and it's not the same for every character. But they hardly have any funny arguments with each other. And the interactions within quests are completely irrelevant.

If you find a treasure one companion might add "I don't like this", but you don't even have an option to argue with him, nor does it have any influence on him what you do. In most cases it is just one or two sentences of flavour without any "gameplay value".

That said, I haven't finished any of their story quests yet.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
The status windows shows it, but it hasn't been consistent. I read somewhere that it takes 3 people - but apparently it takes 2 with one of them engaging from behind. That's simply not practical in a lot of the fights, in my opinion.

I can usually flank with two characters if I position them opposite of each other vs one enemy. I noticed that does not work on some enemies like Spectre, but I don't know if they are immune to flank or if there is another reason.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I don't remember the name, but it's "Companion AI" something - and I believe there are others as well.

It's a hugely required must mod. Really turns the game around

Originally Posted by Kordanor
But they hardly have any funny arguments with each other.

They have many arguments though.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I don't remember the name, but it's "Companion AI" something - and I believe there are others as well.

Thanks, I'll check the nexus.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
They have many arguments though.

I remember to have seen them talking to each other maybe 5-10 times. 3 times of that (or more) was something which they already said before. And that is within over 60 hours of gameplay.

Weird. My team banters quite often.

Already getting repeat banters in Defiance Bay. Doesn't appear to be a lot of variety.

Just to give an example of how "fluent" this RTwP combat is, I uploaded a video snippet from one of my lets plays separately. Its about 19 minutes and basically only consists of one huge trash group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRhYdPoO_f4
Now how long would this have taken in Turn Based combat? Probably it would have been shorter >and< more precise.

Ha! "Fluid" combat is what you meant (I think). RTwP is of course the anti-thesis to combat fluidity even if you are fluent in all abilities and spells.

Uhm…erm, yeah maybe that word fits better. I actually have no idea.

Assuming your intent was to show how combat lurches along in a stop / start manner like someone unfamiliar with a manual transmission, rather than progressing smoothly and realistically in time…

Of course you could never pause, and take your chances, all in the name of fluidity… T'would be suicidal, methinks, until you became quiet fluent.

Would love to see an expert playing like that, as if it were D3 except with a full party of six and no pausing. Especially against lots of shades, spectres, and shadows.

Just finished Chapter One.

At first I wasn't that sure how I felt about the game. I really disliked the combat in the beginning, though now I really am enjoying now. It took a bit of trail and error to find out which party members you needed and how to use them in combat the best.

After a few days of getting into, I didn't want to put it down until the major bug I ran into with one of the quest. I hadn't realized it was a bug until after 5 plus hours of loading, saving and retrying different ways I did a search and found I wasn't the only person(the 1.03 patch fixed this).

The writing is very deep and there is was some very interesting twist in some of the quest I really enjoyed. For the most part the main quest and side quest have been great and a lot of fun. Some really get you thinking on what answers or choice to make.

The first chapter is a very large world, though I do wish there were more people to talk to even if they had just spread out some of the information instead of having so many filler characters. Also the placement of some the characters that you have to talk to often could have been put in better places for back and forth conversations. Loading to change a maps, load to the building they are in, load to go up or downstairs. Then repeat to go back talk or do the task at hand.


Things I an hoping get better is enchanting, really there weren't many items to pick up to enchant items at all. Crafting I found was the same way.

All in all it is a great game so far. I don't care that much about the interaction of people in my party so AI that some people don't seem to like isn't a issue for me. I only found that one bug to be an issue, but once I read the patch was only a few days out I just played around it. The story is great, the world is huge and just loved doing the 15 level dungeon.

9.43957/10 so far.

Oh I wish when you went into a fight on sneak that you came out of the fight on sneak. A few times it has cause me to get into another fight before I could set up how I wanted set up the next battle.