Skyrim - Paid Mod Status Update(Re-Opened)

Originally Posted by zahratustra
I have read what you wrote and deleted Fluent. You have realized that you have revealed too much? You are your own worst enemy man.

This was like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Yup. Sad really.

I am being terribly inconsistent in my declarations but I missed this email and it merits an answer:

Originally Posted by Matin Sanguine
There isn't a "whole new dynamic" created here because the smaller brand/IP would mean less exposure for the modder in question. Even if they got a higher percentage, it would be equaled out by the lesser sales generated due to smaller exposure.

And that's operating off of the assumption that the owner of the smaller IP/brand would even be interested in increasing the percentage for modders at all, as well as supporting modding in general, which is a fairly big one to make given the nature of some of the companies out there.
So I should essentially twist my fingers and hope for the best?

I am afraid that you miss the point. They wouldn't be interested in increasing the percentage for modders or give a bigger percentage to a modder from the goodness of their heart. They will, only if it makes financial sense and only to the modders that "can claim it" obviously. Modding IS profitable if done right that is the reason Valve wants to get involved.

The person who did the SkyUI mod will be getting emails for considering creating a mod in the store by various mod-enabled games in the next two years. And there will be more mod-enabled games because there will be a market and marketplace for them.

This isn't conjecture or hopping for the best, it's basic commerce. No good will or good intentions involved, just plain old profit.

Bigger names will use their IP power and user base to lure modders with skill that want to create a name for them selves (while making some money) and then they, the successful modders, in turn will market this experience and exposure to the next big or smaller IP holder. Why were those specific modders approached you think exactly?

inXile for example have used the Unity store to create game assets by proposing to individuals to create assets for them (in "controversial" terms). I don't know if you are familiar but there are plenty of asset stores that work successfully in pretty much the same way.

I get people being opposed for some ideological reason, but not seeing the dynamics? (Actually from what I understand the backlash and the fear stems from exactly the realization of the business dynamic a store by Valve creates, by polluting and tainting the pure and selfless community).

Simply saying that it could be addressed sometime in the future due to this having supposedly "been solved in the software world ten times over" is vague and meagre arguement given we are currently grappling with its ramifications now; This is hypothetical pro at the very best.

Again not a conjecture, just a fact from world wide business experience.

Perhaps my mistake is that I assumed people would be acquainted with this. I don't know if it will help or make things worse but here is a tangible example: we use the Yii framework (free open source) and Apache Flex (free open source) to create a paid solution that incorporates both. Then we sell happily the outcome. This is done globally with so many software parts, plugins etc that really is hard to convey.

The legal parts, agreements, technicalities are all sorted out because this is what people with financial incentive do (solve things and move on*). The beginning is bumpy, mistakes are made, big kahunas try to growl louder and claim what more they can, others fight them, others outrage and preach doom and then it gets sorted and life goes on.

Take a look in the reddit session of Gabe, if you have the time, to see how people like Iced_Eagle (that I posted earlier) approached the situation (contrast it with the entitled little criers) and maybe you will understand what I mean that the technicalities and terms will get sorted out.

No good will or goodness, just business.

It's not really that interesting considering the scheme you discuss as being unable to work is already in place in the largest modding website (Nexus). If there had been any real concern from any IP holders regarding this then it's unlikely that said scheme would have persisted for as long as it has. Previously, so long as donations didn't act as a perquisite for the mod itself nor were actively enticed for future reward, donations could be made to the mod author. So you can see why people don't see too much of a problem with some sort of donation scheme being established for the Workshop.

The fact that it does not work is evident by the fact that modders do not get money (and that the "serious" ones really don't dislike the idea of the Valve store). And the game creators don't make (direct) money (or more money if you like, since they are greedy bastards). and the fact that Valve has space to create a store.

The only ones that this works for is the Nexus site obviously, and the people that get free stuff; free stuff is AWESOME!

(with the respectful exception of all those who's motives are true and chaste; I can't possible tell who they are since I do not know them personally, but they can save themselves the trouble of getting pissed, because they are obviously the exception)

(I am being a smart ass, but I am sincere in my statement that there are of course exceptions).

*Unless you are Apple, then you go nuclear in their ass

Originally Posted by sibroc
The legal parts, agreements, technicalities are all sorted out because this is what people with financial incentive do (solve things and move on*). The beginning is bumpy, mistakes are made, big kahunas try to growl louder and claim what more they can, others fight them, others outrage and preach doom and then it gets sorted and life goes on

Yeah, that's how thing should theoretically work but you, living in Greece, should know what happens when they don't…

… But his posts in this thread probably don't represent the best example of his contributions.

I am afraid that he is not alone in this…

Some good old irony and cynical stabs are OK but personal attacks are not cool.

Originally Posted by zahratustra
Yeah, that's how thing should theoretically work but you, living in Greece, should know what happens when they don't…

You really don't want to get me started on that…

Whoppa! Get the Skyrim mod debut pack now! All this flaming sword goodness for one low price!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile…/?id=429226887

…………

You're the one who made personal attacks, CelticFrost. Stay classy, buddy.

Originally Posted by sibroc
You really don't want to get me started on that…

I don't. I just wanted to point out that your "and they all lived happily for ever after" scenario isn't the only one possible.

I'd rather have upfront personal attacks than pervasive passive-aggressiveness.

Originally Posted by zahratustra
I don't. I just wanted to point out that your "and they all lived happily for ever after" scenario isn't the only one possible.

I grudgingly acknowledge your point but ripost by slightly modifying the scenario to:

"..and they all lived happily for ever after, eventually, after a lot of people were stabbed, burned, tortured and generally killed"

"..and all three of them lived happily forever after, eventually, after a lot of people were stabbed, burned, tortured and generally killed"

Originally Posted by zahratustra
"..and most of them lived happily forever after, eventually, after a lot of people were stabbed, burned, tortured and generally killed"

See you get the spirit!

…………….

Apparently getting a refund for a mod (if you paid using credit card as opposed to steam wallet funds) gets your ability to interact with the community market suspended for 7 days (and therefore purchase or refund other mods). While this has been how it worked in the past for things like pre-orders - to prevent people from using purchasing and refunding of pre-orders as a way to basically launder purchases from stolen credit cards - this behavior is apparently an error and is going to be fixed for mods.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comme…oldown/cqpov50

Good that it's getting fixed, still doesn't help build confidence in valve's ability to handle this rollout though.

Still, any refunds will only be given in the first 24 hours and in terms of steam credit/wallet.

Alright everything has been said several times already so I'll lock this thread. If you want to talk further about this issue please take it to the forums, and keep it civil.

Update: After some talking with other members the thread is re-opened.

Here is Bethesda's official response to paid mods.

Link - http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/w…mods-on-steam/

Link - http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/commen…team_workshop/

We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree.

Thank you jhwisner for the links.

Reading comprehension in my part. Comment edited. You already quoted the statement.

That really was my main point. Paid mods are not evil or bad. They're good. But they're not good when you don't design and plan appropriately. Skyrim is the wrong community at the wrong time released in the wrong way.

To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it.

And this is what's beautiful about it. One of many things I liked about this model going forward.

Oh well. I fully expect to see it as the long-term strategy going forward, perhaps just not for Skyrim.