Considering stopping my playthrough and replaying TW1/TW2

Originally Posted by JDR13
No, I was talking about Radovid vs the mages in general, not just Loc Muinne. You seem determined to believe that the mages there would have been enough to change the overall outcome for some reason. They obviously weren't, but I won't try to convince you.

Of course it would have changed the outcome. They would have had a safe haven instead of Novigrad, and a city with 3000 mages or whatever Djikstra states there are in the north would be invincible. You'll see later in the game just what someone like Triss can do, and she's nowhere near as powerful as Philippa etc (stated in TW2).

Originally Posted by JDR13
It's a moot point. If the mages were that powerful on their own, why didn't they just conquer everyone else a long time ago?

Because they've never been unified. All sides of previous conflicts have always had their share of mages. It was never one side with mages and one without.

Originally Posted by azarhal
As for all that talk of soldiers vs mages, there is few powerful mages around (i.e. Sources), the rest are no better than witchers or a country healer/witch who brew potions. As for Sabrina Glessivig, she cast a curse using her life to decimate a battlefield, not quite the same thing as throwing fireballs at soldiers. The Fyke Island curse was caused by a none mage.

No, the fire spell that decimated two entire armies was just a spell, albeit one Philippa warned her against using because it's unconvential and considered a weapon of mass destruction (something about how The Lodge can't protect her from the political blowback using something that powerful).

The curse you mention was the blood curse she put on Henselt, which is something else entirely. She did that while burning at the stake (enthralled a soldier, who later turned hermit, into piercing her with his spear, enabling her to cast a blood curse using her own blood).

Originally Posted by Maylander
No, the fire spell that decimated two entire armies was just a spell, albeit one Philippa warned her against using because it's unconvential and considered a weapon of mass destruction (something about how The Lodge can't protect her from the political blowback using something that powerful).

You are right, looks like I have the order of events mix-up (i.e. Henselt kills her and her curse decimate the battlefield, but it's actually she decimate the battlefield and Henselt kills her and she cast the curse).

Originally Posted by azarhal
You are right, looks like I have the order of events mix-up (i.e. Henselt kills her and her curse decimate the battlefield, but it's actually she decimate the battlefield and Henselt kills her and she cast the curse).

Yep. Henselt killed her because she dishonored him with her spell.

Originally Posted by Maylander
Of course it would have changed the outcome. They would have had a safe haven instead of Novigrad, and a city with 3000 mages or whatever Djikstra states there are in the north would be invincible. You'll see later in the game just what someone like Triss can do, and she's nowhere near as powerful as Philippa etc (stated in TW2).

That's a nice conjecture, but nothing more, and it doesn't look like CDP saw it the same way.

Originally Posted by Maylander
Because they've never been unified. All sides of previous conflicts have always had their share of mages. It was never one side with mages and one without.

Which is just yet another reason why they never stood a chance when the common people turned against them.

Originally Posted by Maylander
Yep. Henselt killed her because she dishonored him with her spell.

So powerful, yet a handful of Henselt's men didn't seem to have a problem tying her to a stake and burning her.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Which is just yet another reason why they never stood a chance when the common people turned against them.

So powerful, yet a handful of Henselt's men didn't seem to have a problem tying her to a stake and burning her.

Yes, essentially they're not all that in close quarter. Slap dimeritium on them and they can't even cast spells. That's why the massacre of Loc Muinne is "canon" (even if you import one where it didn't happen, everyone, including Triss, will refer to it happening): It makes sense. Kill off a few dozen of the most powerful ones while they can't cast spells, and the rest are killed off when the common folk (and witch hunters) turn on them in close quarters. There is no unity; no Conclave.

Change the scenario into something of a siege at Loc Muinne and the entire plot of TW3 would have to be changed, as they would all simply teleport there, rendering them immune to the persecution (there are no common folk or witch hunters there). Also, in something of an open battle, with an army marching up to the gates of the city, they could just sit on top of some tower and burn the whole army to a crisp. We've seen Triss, Yen and Sabrina all use various area attacks capable of killing hundreds at a time; there is no indication Philippa, Sile, Kiera etc would not also be able to do that.

It's kind of like Star Wars 3 without Order 66; the Jedi would have won easily.

Edit: Look, I'd have to spoil more of TW3 to properly make my point. You'll see more of what they can do later on. Just trust me: Dozens or even hundreds of them would never be beaten in any kind of conventional battle. Not a chance.

I doubt you'd be spoiling much as I've seen most of what there is to see.

You seem to assume that Radovid would try to use the same tactics against them that he would against a normal opponent. As if he would just march an army up the gate of a city without some kind of protection or fight them from a distance in the open. I somehow doubt it's that simple.

If you want to continue to fantasize about what "could" happen, that's fine. I just don't see the point of it.

For some reason, you seem to be having a difficult time coming to terms with the fact that CDP didn't write it the way you thought they should have.

Originally Posted by JDR13
For some reason, you seem to be having a difficult time coming to terms with the fact that CDP didn't write it the way you thought they should have.

I'm having a problem with them completely ignoring most major decisions, yet including a "save game import feature" which, quite frankly, is a complete joke. It's an insult to the decisions made in TW2. Saskia? Conclave? Which ruler gained what? There's simply no way it would all turn out the way it did, given how significant the choices are. The massacre of Loc Muinne is just one example.

Instead of simply being honest, and saying that it would be too much work to implement it all, they tried to paper over the cracks by writing some supposed solution that allows them to ignore it all. It's nonsense.

The game is brilliant, the best in years, but they should have just been up front about what's considered canon and what isn't, which is what most sequels do, instead of hiding it behind some poorly written excuse.

You're welcome to your opinion, but I think you're exaggerating. Importing a save game makes enough changes to be worthwhile. Most of the changes are subtle, but I'm not sure why you would have expected different in a game of this size.

The only thing that makes using an actual save unnecessary is the option to take part in the "save simulation".

I'm not sure why you feel that CDP needed to be up front about what's canon. Playing through the game without a save and skipping the save simulation will show you what's canon. Were they supposed to announce it beforehand for some reason? I don't see why they would.

Originally Posted by JDR13
You're welcome to your opinion, but I think you're exaggerating. Importing a save game makes enough changes to be worthwhile. Most of the changes are subtle, but I'm not sure why you would have expected different in a game of this size.

They're not subtle, they're not there. I bumped into Letho for about 2 minutes, Sile popped up and died after about 10 seconds and that's about it. Not one major decision is present. Saved Triss? Nobody cares, least of all Triss. Doesn't even bring it up. You know, "thanks for saving me instead of going after the heir of Temeria". Nothing. Saved the heir of Temeria instead? Nobody cares. Chose to help Iorveth instead of Roche? Not even Roche cares; he acts the same regardless, like you're old buddies.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I'm not sure why you feel that CDP needed to be up front about what's canon. Playing through the game without a save and skipping the save simulation will show you what's canon. Were they supposed to announce it beforehand for some reason? I don't see why they would.

I don't give a rats tits about what they consider canon. They should have done what every other RPG franchise in the world except Mass Effect and Dragon Age did: Picked a canon and wrote the story around that. It worked in Baldur's Gate, it worked in Elder Scrolls, it worked in Gothic, it worked in Risen, it worked KotOR, it worked in NWN, it worked in Might & Magic, and so on and so forth. The list is pretty damn long.

Instead, they chose to implement a "feature" that's no better than simply choosing what's canon, only it raised expectations and led quite a few players (me included, obviously) to look for the effects high and low, where none was to be found.

The point is: They should have skipped the feature instead of completely botching it. The current version is just misleading, allowing players to think their choices had some sort of impact. It didn't. It's as bad as the ME3 ending where all the choices were essentially insignificant because of the final choice: "We know you made a lot of decisions along the way, and we even let you believe it mattered, but quite frankly we don't give a shit so here's our version of it."

Just be up front about it and it's fine. This is not fine.

Originally Posted by Maylander
They're not subtle, they're not there. I bumped into Letho for about 2 minutes, Sile popped up and died after about 10 seconds and that's about it. Not one major decision is present. Saved Triss? Nobody cares, least of all Triss. Doesn't even bring it up. You know, "thanks for saving me instead of going after the heir of Temeria". Nothing. Saved the heir of Temeria instead? Nobody cares. Chose to help Iorveth instead of Roche? Not even Roche cares; he acts the same regardless, like you're old buddies.

Bumped into Letho for two minutes? Ok

No, they don't specifically bring up every choice, but they don't ignore every choice either. Not sure why you feel the need to keep exaggerating the way you are, but I think you're letting emotion take over at this point.

Originally Posted by Maylander
I don't give a rats tits about what they consider canon. They should have done what every other RPG franchise in the world except Mass Effect and Dragon Age did: Picked a canon and wrote the story around that. It worked in Baldur's Gate, it worked in Elder Scrolls, it worked in Gothic, it worked in Risen, it worked KotOR, it worked in NWN, it worked in Might & Magic, and so on and so forth. The list is pretty damn long.

Instead, they chose to implement a "feature" that's no better than simply choosing what's canon, only it raised expectations and led quite a few players (me included, obviously) to look for the effects high and low, where none was to be found.

The point is: They should have skipped the feature instead of completely botching it. The current version is just misleading, allowing players to think their choices had some sort of impact. It didn't. It's as bad as the ME3 ending where all the choices were essentially insignificant because of the final choice: "We know you made a lot of decisions along the way, and we even let you believe it mattered, but quite frankly we don't give a shit so here's our version of it."

Just be up front about it and it's fine. This is not fine.

I don't agree, but again, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
I specifically picked not killing Letho (as well as Phllippa) just to allow them to make an encore appearance. But those are minor to preventing the massacre. And nothing….

Oops, I meant Sile, not Philippe.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Oops, I meant Sile, not Philippe.

Ah, that makes more sense. Yeah, Sile is very disappointing.