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Default Does "Addictive" mean good?

December 4th, 2015, 14:32
Considering the word "addict" often means bad.

I bring this up because this is probably the most frequent key-word I'm reading when people are attempting to praise a game they like in the past few months, and it's starting to get to me.

I've always associated the concept of addictive gameplay with games that offer little else than the level-up for the sake of the level-up or the collect them all for the sake of the collect them all, which makes sense for a collector of solid products, but not so much for in-game enjoyment or quality.

For me, the above two examples are both things I might perform within a game once I have completed the "main game" and am just messing around to try and extend a happy experience, but I know it's a pointless dead-end and I don't treat it as gameplay, rather just a time-killer.

The concept of purely addictive gameplay is something that used to be applied to such things as Facebook games or casino games when discussing the idea of addictive qualities as a means of gameplay. This isn't to say that regular gameplay can't or shouldn't be addictive, but that if the primary quality is addictive gameplay, as exampled by the two examples above, then it's more than likely the "main game" will suck.

The idea being that any fool can make something addictive, but only a craftsman can make something fulfilling.

Computer gaming is very tied into the casino mindset, but it's also equally influenced by artistic media. If something is predominantly described as "addictive" then I automatically start thinking from the casino perspective where as if something is described as "engrossing" I tend to start thinking from the "artistic" perspective.

If we start associating the term "addictive" with "quality" aren't we dooming ourselves to never actually promoting quality and one day find our hobby dominated by the casino group mindset?
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December 4th, 2015, 14:36
I think when people talk about games as being "Addictive" they mean it in a broader sense. For example they might mean that they can't wait to get back in the game or can't stop playing because they want to know what happens next in the story.

Or they are enjoying the combats so much that they think it is addictive experimenting with new stats and so on.

Do not confuse with MMO RPG one quest a day / one more level to get some extra gold etc addictiveness..

Perhaps we should used positively addicted to ? and negatively addicted to ?
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December 4th, 2015, 15:20
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Considering the word "addict" often means bad.
I'm smoking like a chimney.
An addict.
Am I bad?
Dunno.

The huge problem I see is not me being an addict, but me not caring. Reason for not caring? I'll die anyway. One way or another. At least I can enjoy my last days.
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December 4th, 2015, 17:46
I thank-you for responding joxer, but a topic-derail on from the second respondent is somewhat depressing. Much as we'd all love to discuss the philosophy of your smoking habit, do you think we could stick to the concept of in-game addiction as gameplay?

In answer to your question, yes, smoking addiction is considered bad, however, an individual in isolation of public opinion can view their own situation however they want (as with most things humans do), and you not caring is neither good nor bad but a statement from a neutral vantage point.

So… back to games? Or anyone else prefer to talk about joxer's smoking habit? I shall examine the results of this question carefully so that I can post more interesting threads in the future
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December 4th, 2015, 18:11
You should always read between lines.
Addictive games? Addiction to games? Compared to other addictives and addictions? Positive or not? It's IMO rethorical.
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December 4th, 2015, 18:22
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
You should always read between lines.
Addictive games? Addiction to games? Compared to other addictives and addictions? Positive or not? It's IMO rethorical.
You're not getting it are you.

Compare playing Texas Hold'em on a casino's website with playing Witcher 3 on Steam's website. There's nothing rhetorical about that whatsoever, one is attempting to be something approaching art whereas the other has no objective other than to snare addictive tendencies. They both have visible gameplay features for which addiction is important, but one is "addictive" whereas the other is "engrossing". Two words that mean something 'similar' but with different logical meanings. Also, Witcher 3 will end at some point… it has a written ending.

There's nothing "rhetorical" at all, unless you are incapable of understanding the question and/or viewing the question from a refusal to understand the question position.
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December 4th, 2015, 20:10
I think in general when people say a game is addicting they mean it's fun and not literally addictive.

For example I found bloodborne's combat quite addictive and would get home after work and play for a couple hours and could put 8-10 hours on a weekend day if nothing interfered but I would still work, spend time with friends and family and take care of my personal affairs. I think this is healthy and positive.

However if I were to start calling in sick to work, ignoring friends, stop paying bills, skipping meals, etc. just to play then obviously that wouldn't be good.

I think true addiction controls the individual which can become a problem. For instance, with the smoking example. My wife and I went on a short trip with her sister who's a smoker. It was quite the hassle. She needed to stop at rest areas along the way to smoke, have one before going in a restaurant, get up during her meal to go have one, waiting for her to have one before we could get back in the car and get going. She wake up at the hotel and have to immediately go down to have one.

Her whole life revolves around making sure she has the ability to smoke and if she ran out or was in a place she couldn't then she would get increasingly agitated. Needless to say I told my wife never again is she riding with us.

Sorry, I don't mean to perpetuate the smoking angle but I think it's important to differentiate between a real addiction and something you just really enjoy doing.

So in short if you can control it it's probably not a real addiction and if you notice gaming or whatever is controlling you then you may want to reassess what your doing.

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December 4th, 2015, 20:47
Nope, you haven't got it either.

I'm not talking about real-world addictions, I'm talking about forms of gameplay that are either 'addictive' or 'engrossing'.

A facebook game does not have a 'narrative', you play for the sake of playing - the Farmville effect. There's no end, one just plays to make numbers go up and to expand one's fantasy world exponentially. It's just addictive gameplay. There's no other hook or element to the game. An 'interesting' computer game is predominantly about the 'narrative', which 'engrosses' the player for the duration of the narrative.

Being 'engrossed' in something does not mean you are addicted, wanting to play Bloodbourne to completion does not mean you are 'addicted' to it. The non-plot dungeons in that game, however, are purely addiction-gameplay based.

Do you understand yet?
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December 4th, 2015, 20:58
I also think the term "addictive" when it applies to gaming is a somewhat underground slang that is now becoming mainstream terminology. In the mainstream community, negative connotations are perceived, when before it was just sort of an "inside" underground joke.
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December 4th, 2015, 23:41
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Nope, you haven't got it either.

I'm not talking about real-world addictions, I'm talking about forms of gameplay that are either 'addictive' or 'engrossing'.

A facebook game does not have a 'narrative', you play for the sake of playing - the Farmville effect. There's no end, one just plays to make numbers go up and to expand one's fantasy world exponentially. It's just addictive gameplay. There's no other hook or element to the game. An 'interesting' computer game is predominantly about the 'narrative', which 'engrosses' the player for the duration of the narrative.

Being 'engrossed' in something does not mean you are addicted, wanting to play Bloodbourne to completion does not mean you are 'addicted' to it. The non-plot dungeons in that game, however, are purely addiction-gameplay based.

Do you understand yet?
I thought I covered both, engrossing in the 1st scenario and real world in the second.

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December 5th, 2015, 00:03
Oh well, :shrug:
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December 5th, 2015, 00:43
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Oh well, :shrug:
That's why I'm addicted to the Internet, so many kind and interesting people to meet.

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December 5th, 2015, 01:03
What aspect of the thread intent are you not understanding?
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December 5th, 2015, 01:16
IMHO addictive in connection with games is a good thing. For example, I find games like G2-NoTR, or M&M7 highly addictive; I can't stop playing them once I begin and they are games I have played many times. I don't think it's just one element of the game, but the gestalt of many elements which for some glorious reason just WORK.
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December 5th, 2015, 01:38
Do either of those games have gameplay features which are unending? And, if so, is it the unending nature of them which is their primary feature?

I'm not familiar with M&M 7, but doesn't it have an end-point that is the result of a narrative? Or is it an eternal continuum? Likewise with Gothic II?

This thread seems to being understood by some but not by others, so I'm kind-of at a loss as to how to proceed.

I know it's semantics, but when you say you can't stop playing them as soon as you start, don't you actually mean you get immediately engrossed? Because you know they will end at some point. If something has a point A and ends with a point B then it can't be considered addictive, because the concept of an end implies non-addiction.

A more RPG example of purely addictive gameplay might be a Diablo-clone where people complete the main campaign, then just farm for better equipment to beat eternal procedurally generated 'harder' monsters. The game is over, but the addictive loop of gear+monsters goes on eternally, to the point where the actual 'game' is a long distant memory. The developer-created aspect of addictive gameplay in this scenario would be to deliberately structure the gear drops to ensure a very long addiction. Their primary goal is to addict people.

However, with a game which ends when it ends, the developer will not structure gear drops to ensure post-game addiction, therefore it does not have addiction-based gameplay.
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December 5th, 2015, 01:46
Those games do end, so there is a definite narrative element, but that is not what makes them either addictive, or engrossing. While gameplay is important, I think it's a combination of many elements. I'm not sure I agree with you sematically (if there is such a word) about addiction not having an end. All addictions can have an end just like a game. I'm addicted to the game while I'm playing it; I don't want to stop. However, once the game finishes I can sit back and look for my next addiction!!
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December 5th, 2015, 02:06
Well, the semantics are somewhat important. You wouldn't say you were addicted to watching a good film "that film was very addicting", but a film in a series of films might cause one to say "that series is very addicting" - because it's the creation of a series that necessitates the writers to change from a standalone product style to an addictive product style - ie: create cliff-hangers and unresolved plots.

So Game of Thrones is written to primarily be addictive. It uses well known addictive tricks. CSI on the other hand is a non-addictive series because they rarely use the well known addictive tricks and give you neat happy endings with the same characters at the end of each episode. This is why people get hysterical about Game of Thrones, but not CSI, even though both are popular and watchable and tend to grab onto you when you tune in. Whether people 'can' get addicted to CSI is a different topic to whether CSI is using addictive screenwriting (gameplay) tricks.

So when I see people use the term addictive in reference to a game, I automatically, semantics aside, think 'tricks' are involved, because addiction tricks are a very real part of game design, particularly games where the narrative element is not present. So, no, I never used to come across people using the term addictive in reference to the games I liked, it would be like calling a film addictive, it just makes no grammatical sense. But as games have become more… unwieldy?… I've noticed this phrase pop-up more and more. Hence the thread.
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December 5th, 2015, 21:09
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Considering the word "addict" often means bad.

I bring this up because this is probably the most frequent key-word I'm reading when people are attempting to praise a game they like in the past few months, and it's starting to get to me.
Me, I've come to a similar thought.

In a way, it means "good", yes. It is so good that you don't want to stop playing it.

One thought is, that maybe we - as the human race - have justnot learned to grow neural cell connections (or whatever) to withstand this kind of addiction ?
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December 5th, 2015, 22:25
The games I enjoy most and the games I've played most compulsively aren't the same ones at all.

There's a braindead, grindy style of RPG or Action RPG that I'm ashamed to say it's possible for me to switch off my mind and play without pause for literally a full day, not taking my eyes off the screen. And at the end of such a day I feel about as cheerful and energized as if I'd spent the day doing bookkeeping -- there's no pleasure or artistry in it, just the constant, numbing prompt to repeat the same actions over and over.

A narrative game might use the same tricks to keep you involved as any other kind of genre fiction (cliffhangers etc), but that's very different from the incentivized boredom of the most addictive games -- games that get your brain into a self-reinforcing loop of incremental stat boosts, gear upgrades etc.
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December 5th, 2015, 22:48
Well I would say to your point on CSI it was an Addictive show when it first came out 15 years ago to a lot of people. It had 3 or 4 spin off show from the first one, CSI Miami, NY and now with Cyber they are trying to regenerate the franchise.
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