Random encounters in JRPGs

I know that, speaking only for myself, random encounters can start to get reeeally repetitive and grindy after a while, especially in games that won't let you save anywhere you want. What if you have to get up and leave in a few minutes? You have no idea how many mobs you have to grind through before you can save your game - or even where those mobs are. For me personally, it adds tension and stress to something I'd originally come to for fun. This was one of my problems with Bravely Default, a game I really enjoyed otherwise.

The newer model, like what Chrono Trigger and Persona use, where you can at least see what's around you, feels like kind of a relief psychologically. I'm not sure why that is.

I haven't played a game with random encounters that didn't let you save in a long time. I can't even remember which game it was, but I'm sure I've encountered that once or twice in my 25 years of gaming.

We're all different, but I actually like the added tension and stress of limited saving in certain "hardcore" RPGs. Then again, I'm a bit of a sadist when it comes to RPGs. I like them difficult and punishing, heh. But I can understand if you have to leave the game immediately or something, obviously that can be a problem for you.

It does seem to be sort of a psychological issue. Again, there are probably just as many encounters in Baldur's Gate than there is in an old-school styled JRPG, but you can see BG's enemies coming. Just something to ponder.

Originally Posted by Fluent
It does seem to be sort of a psychological issue. Again, there are probably just as many encounters in Baldur's Gate than there is in an old-school styled JRPG, but you can see BG's enemies coming. Just something to ponder.

The amount of encounters is irrelevant. It's about hand-placed vs random which are very different systems. I'm not sure why you keep trying to downplay that.

There's nothing wrong with liking either system, but you don't need to rationalize why someone shouldn't dislike one if they do.

I was just sharing an idea I had about the differences between the systems. If the end result is the same amount of encounters in both games, what's the point?

Is there that big of a difference exploring Final Fantasy 7's map compared to a map in Baldur's Gate? Unless you are exploring the same terrain for an extended period time/backtracking a lot, there really isn't much of a difference. Encounters gonna encounter.

People can like/dislike whatever they want. I'm cool with both designs.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Is there that big of a difference exploring Final Fantasy 7's map compared to a map in Baldur's Gate?

Yes, there is. In a game like BG, tactics involving stealth and scouting can be used to assess enemies before you engage them and plan your battles beforehand. That's going to affect how you move across any given area. There are more options on how you can approach things.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Yes, there is. In a game like BG, tactics involving stealth and scouting can be used to assess enemies before you engage them and plan your battles beforehand. That's going to affect how you move across any given area. There are more options on how you can approach things.

True. Also have to consider it's a difference between real-time and turn-based.

I think it's a pretty complex issue based on a lot of different factors. I would be interested in seeing some actual data about how often random battles happen across various JRPGs vs. say, Western RPGs, as well as how many encounters happen total in the games.

Interesting. My dad and I played co-op Sacred 2 for like, 300 hours, slaughtering countless mobs of respawning enemies. We thought it was fun and didn't consider it a hassle because enemies were pretty much easily dispatched of if they were lower level and the combat was fun. Plus you pretty much played that game to get as much cool new loot as you could and level up your characters since the level cap was 200.

Originally Posted by Fluent
True. Also have to consider it's a difference between real-time and turn-based.

I think it's a pretty complex issue based on a lot of different factors. I would be interested in seeing some actual data about how often random battles happen across various JRPGs vs. say, Western RPGs, as well as how many encounters happen total in the games.

What's complex about it? You either prefer one or the other or have no preference.

People who like JRPGs are likely to be more tolerant of random encounters since they were more prevalent in that genre. It's not rocket science.

It's also easy to see that random encounters are not nearly as popular as they used to be, and I don't see many gamers lamenting over it.

Mmk.

Yeah.. I didn't expect much more than that.

Mmk.

I do like the random encounter model in Elminage Gothic. Floors respawn upon exiting, so not only do you have to carefully plan your trek INTO the dungeon, you must make sure you have enough supplies and resources to trek OUT of the dungeon.

That is, until you get the teleportation spell, which is many levels down the road. That makes managing supplies and resources MUCH easier.

I was hoping that the game limited saves in some way, like a "Hardcore" mode or something. Right now, you can save after every battle, which is cool for making progress, but takes much of the risk out of the game.

Originally Posted by Fluent
I don't understand the disdain for "random encounters" in JRPGs. Aren't encounters in Baldur's Gate basically random? Yes, I know they have been hand-placed there in BG, but what difference does it make if you fight a hand-placed encounter vs. a random one? How could one even know the difference in a controlled experiment?

The difference is that with hand-placed encounters you kill everyone and you can explore. With random encounters, that depends. If the game does them right you can explore, if it does them wrong you won't be exploring for fear of running into a few random encounters that already annoy you with their repetitiveness by that point.

And such encounters are jarring overall, not only they kill the joy of exploration, but they often put you from one perspective into another encounter screen. It really feels like the game rudely interrupts exploring for repetitive bouts.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Can anyone give an example of an RPG that has random encounters every 3 steps?

Sure, right now I'm playing Xenogears. In battle areas, which usually happen to be maze-like places (which would normally I'd love to explore), random encounters assault you like mad. You can be lucky enough to make 10 or so steps without one, but it's possible to have another encounter in 3 steps, as well. Another game that did it I played recently was Shadow Hearts. I'm trying to explore here, dammit, stop throwing battles at me! That one employed the equal number of seconds between encounters, as far as I could tell, but it was a lot smaller than I'd have preferred.

P.S. Xenogears is especially funny in that respect. You can have a random encounter in midair. Good luck jumping from one cliff to another.

Originally Posted by Elel
P.S. Xenogears is especially funny in that respect. You can have a random encounter in midair. Good luck jumping from one cliff to another.

That's terrible.

I'd also like to mention, and people often forget, that all the Elder Scroll games, including Skyrim, have random encounters. They also have set encounters and mix them up well. I've always thought the pacing of random encounters in those games to be pretty good.

Originally Posted by Fluent
I haven't played a game with random encounters that didn't let you save in a long time. I can't even remember which game it was, but I'm sure I've encountered that once or twice in my 25 years of gaming.

We're all different, but I actually like the added tension and stress of limited saving in certain "hardcore" RPGs. Then again, I'm a bit of a sadist when it comes to RPGs. I like them difficult and punishing, heh. But I can understand if you have to leave the game immediately or something, obviously that can be a problem for you.

It does seem to be sort of a psychological issue. Again, there are probably just as many encounters in Baldur's Gate than there is in an old-school styled JRPG, but you can see BG's enemies coming. Just something to ponder.

In Final Fantasy 3, the end game sequence (in the darkness) takes over two and a half hours. There are five bosses and a ton of random encounters and there is only a quick save, so if you die you have to replay the whole thing. I found that pretty annoying. I ended up dying at the main (last) boss and decided it wasn't worth replaying 2 1/2 hours to watch the last cut scene.

I thought the way random encounters were done in Lords of Xulima was ALMOST perfect. Not only could you potentially clear out all random encounters in a certain area, but one of your characters also had a skill that let you avoid fights at the cost of mana, which you could level up to make more efficient. You could only rest a certain number of times in dungeons, so managing your resources at picking and choosing which fights to do was a big part of the strategy.

The reason I say it was almost perfect though, was that fights could be really long. They could be varied and interesting, but they eventually become a bit tediously long.

Originally Posted by forgottenlor
In Final Fantasy 3, the end game sequence (in the darkness) takes over two and a half hours. There are five bosses and a ton of random encounters and there is only a quick save, so if you die you have to replay the whole thing. I found that pretty annoying. I ended up dying at the main (last) boss and decided it wasn't worth replaying 2 1/2 hours to watch the last cut scene.

Ugh. I'd forgotten about that. I think that's why I never beat that game. I got to that point and stopped. I didn't have the courage to go any further, to put myself through that nightmare.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Can anyone give an example of an RPG that has random encounters every 3 steps?

Dungeon Lords (in a version before they made a patch or mod allowing to reduce random encounters). Its not a JRPG but in this regard its much worse.

If you play that as a mage and still like the random encounters afterwards, you have won the internet.

LOL ya, having finished Final Fantasy three just a few weeks ago, that memory of the last charge is still fresh in my mind. I think I was shaking when it was all over and done! Heck, even the last bit in Final Fantasy five is pretty gnarly )).

Just started Final Fantasy six, maybe ninety minutes in and I'd say the random encounter rate in this game is much lower than the previous games.

Originally Posted by forgottenlor
I'd also like to mention, and people often forget, that all the Elder Scroll games, including Skyrim, have random encounters. They also have set encounters and mix them up well. I've always thought the pacing of random encounters in those games to be pretty good.

Those aren't random encounters in the same context though. Those are more like spawns. The random encounters I think most of us are referring to are the kind in which the enemy is invisible and the encounters are unforeseeable.