Cyberpunk 2077 - What to expect?

Originally Posted by azarhal
@sakichop Kinda weird, you basically get a tutorial on all the view and movement modes when you start a new game and you can switch while playing.

Yep, I don't remember a tutorial though just 2 choices on how to play. I tried both and much preferred ots.

Originally Posted by azarhal
The Witcher 2/3 are twitch action games. Dragon Age Origins/The Witcher 1 are RTwP. That's two different genre of games to me.

I suppose it depends on how you played Witcher 1. If you played in ots mode it was very much a twitch game. You attacked and chained them together by clicking at just the right time , you could flip over enemies, spin, roll and parry. So if you played this way there wasn't really much change at all.

Also I don't think changing the combat necessarily Changes genre. I'd call, dark souls, skyrim, DAO and TOEE all rpgs but they all have very different combat. I suppose you could break it down to sub-genres though.

Unlike the games mentioned by azarhaland, TW games and more so in TW3 the rpg doesn't come from building a generic character, like in TES games. It comes from real choices that make a huge impact on how the story plays out for each person.

Every game 30 years that I have played everyone basically got the same story and outcome no matter how they played until TW3. I figure I have about 10 to 15 hours left in a complete replay, though this time with both expansions.

A completely different game…completely. Sure the contracts and treasures are the same but the main story and things that happen off of choices you make it. I will take that over being about to play a mage or fighter etc and when I start out I have plus 10 two hand over your plus 8.

Knowing that like in real life the choices you make have some real impact….

It is like playing the game for the first time again.

Originally Posted by azarhal

As for my comment about action-adventure games. I'm actually agreeing with BoboTheMighty that giving stats to Geralt was stupid because it is a set character. The action-adventure remark is because if you remove stats and have a fixed protagonist than the game is no different than games like the Batman Arkham series which are action-adventure despite the character building, questing, levels and XP gameplay available. The witcher games just have more choices&consequences, but I get C&C in my RTS games campaign too and I don't consider those RPG for it.

Anyway, that's off topic.

I wouldn't agree with that…Witcher doesn't simply have a set role like action game, it heavily focuses on characterization of that role, protagonist and his relationship with other characters, history, events. In a way achieves opposite from all other rpg's which give you more roles, but world reactivity falls down into : "So you're a mage/fighter/rogue/etc.." occasional remarks, at best.

I've played as many action/adventure games as well as rpg's and there is a big "tonal" shift between them in how world and characters react to player role, set or no. And the other way around.
That's also the main reason why first Mass Effect is considered more an rpg, than the others.
In the end, rpg's are like porn…you know it, when you see it.

To me TW1 was an RPG, TW2 an adventure RPG and TW3 RPG again.

Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty
I wouldn't agree with that…Witcher doesn't simply have a set role like action game, it heavily focuses on characterization of that role, protagonist and his relationship with other characters, history, events. In a way achieves opposite from all other rpg's which give you more roles, but world reactivity falls down into : "So you're a mage/fighter/rogue/etc.." occasional remarks, at best.

See the bolded part is why I consider the Witcher adventure games: you don't role-play anyone, you play Geralt. You do not select Geralt's friends, they come from the novels. The lovers choices are people Geralt already had sex with in the novels. The events are just continuation of what was happening in the novels. There is no role-playing here, just re-affirmation of who Geralt is/was.

If the bold part is what you think make an awesome RPG, than I suggest you play Life is Strange. Optional romances, plot centered on relationships, history and events exploration. There is even quite a bit of C&C. It's the best modern take on the point&click adventure genre (it's not point&click, you move in a 3d game and there is a lot of cutscene, but gameplay wise point&click adventure is the closest thing).

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Moving back to the thread topic which is Cyberpunk 2077 and what to expect.

I've reread the OP article link and a few others (from 2013 mostly) and I just have to . I think very few people actually know the Cyberpunk 2020 settings or they really just expect a shooty bang bang game (expression taken from neogaf, not mine).

In the gamepressure article (the on linked in the OP) it mention: "Mike Pondsmith’s world is more violent, and stealthy actions aren’t exactly encouraged – disputes are resolved with guns, and big guns at that; not sneaking past enemies (even though the table-top mechanics suggest high mortality of the protagonist). What’s more, melee weapons play a marginal role – fire arms are the deal; visions of the future similar to that from The Technomancer, for example, where combat is mostly melee, won’t be welcome here."

This is so totally wrong. The setting is violent because of decadence and corruption. The core manual heavily suggest that you think outside of the box to resolve problems instead of going for direct confrontation though. Going as far as telling the reader hide your stuff inside the turf of the enemies of your enemies so they do the work for you…

As for melee weapons, there is 10 different martial arts covered in the manual with their own set of bonuses and attacks. There is melee weapons and melee cybernetics aplenty (the later are even in the trailer). Of course, the game will probably have less stuff, but saying melee weapon play a marginal role is being disconnect with the setting. They are a lot cheaper than bullets and cybernetics.

Originally Posted by azarhal
See the bolded part is why I consider the Witcher adventure games: you don't role-play anyone, you play Geralt. You do not select Geralt's friends, they come from the novels. The lovers choices are people Geralt already had sex with in the novels. The events are just continuation of what was happening in the novels. There is no role-playing here, just re-affirmation of who Geralt is/was.

Sorry, but that's an incredibly lame rationalization. The fact that Geralt & company exist in previously written novels has no impact whatsoever on what you choose to do in the games, nor does it make them any less of an RPG.

All these posts about Cyberpunk 2077 made me wanna play Netrunner Card Game again. Not Netrunner Android, which I heard is very good but I don't have any cards. I'm speaking about the Netrunner from 1996. I have fond memories from that time, playing it with friends and all. Those were good times

Originally Posted by JDR13
Sorry, but that's an incredibly lame rationalization. The fact that Geralt & company exist in previously written novels has no impact whatsoever on what you choose to do in the games, nor does it make them any less of an RPG.

Why does it matter, though? There is no universal definition of an RPG. A game like NBA 2K basketball has RPG elements like the Witcher does, and so do games like Call of Duty, Far Cry and many others.

I would call Witcher an RPG series for sure but that's just me. I think what azarhal is talking about is more of a "traditional" type PC RPG vs. a more action-oriented one. So RTwP is seen as more of a methodical, slower-paced, "tactical" experience that likely has a much stronger pen-and-paper influence than a game that relies on heavier stick skills or advanced action combat.

Nothing wrong with either there's enough room for all types of RPGs. If you enjoy the game and think it's an RPG then it is.

Originally Posted by azarhal
See the bolded part is why I consider the Witcher adventure games: you don't role-play anyone, you play Geralt. You do not select Geralt's friends, they come from the novels. The lovers choices are people Geralt already had sex with in the novels. The events are just continuation of what was happening in the novels. There is no role-playing here, just re-affirmation of who Geralt is/was.

Definitely not…by that line of reasoning, Torment is not rpg either…race, sex, appearance, name ( or lack of it), player's history and previous relationships are all predetermined.
And events are continuation of…where was Jacques, Letho, O'Dimm, etc… in the novels? If anything, one of complaints, from some of the players was about dissonance with game characters next to their portrayal in novels.
Witcher has more nuanced, to call it, role playing built on existing history, charactes and relationships( at it's core)…for example, book Geralt would never couple with Triss over Yennefer, anyone can tell you that…It's a very blunt comparison with adventure games like LIS.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Why does it matter, though? There is no universal definition of an RPG. A game like NBA 2K basketball has RPG elements like the Witcher does, and so do games like Call of Duty, Far Cry and many others.

It doesn't. I just though it was a somewhat silly rationalization, so I called him out on it.

Originally Posted by Fluent
I would call Witcher an RPG series for sure but that's just me. I think what azarhal is talking about is more of a "traditional" type PC RPG vs. a more action-oriented one. So RTwP is seen as more of a methodical, slower-paced, "tactical" experience that likely has a much stronger pen-and-paper influence than a game that relies on heavier stick skills or advanced action combat.

It's not about the combat. It's about role-playing as in me deciding my character background (that fit the lore), who are his/her friends&foes, his/her personality (like/dislike, preference, etc), select a class/skills that fit that and then role-play that while playing the game (when possible, video games have limited options, especially since voiced protagonist became a thing). I can do it to some extend in the BG games, the TES series, Pillars of Eternity and other games.

And it is one of the reason why I both really can't wait for Cyberpunk 2077 and dread it at the same time. Cyberpunk 2020 ruleset is designed with role-players in mind. It's not about combat. It's not about exploring dungeons. It's not about amassing cool loot (although that can happen, but the ruleset grant a monthly salary for your role). It's about putting characters in situations* and asking them "what do you do now?" and you role-playing your character as designed to survive.

*Some examples: family members kidnapped/killed after you released some dirt about a company CEO, turf war between gangs that comes near where you live, the company where you work is caught in a war against another corp, while attending (or playing in) a music show a cyberpsycho goes on rampage…

Originally Posted by azarhal
*Some examples: family members kidnapped/killed after you released some dirt about a company CEO, turf war between gangs that comes near where you live, the company where you work is caught in a war against another corp, while attending (or playing in) a music show a cyberpsycho goes on rampage…

That sounds terrible, lol. I think I take back what I said. I don't think I will play this game even if it uses a pen-and-paper style RPG system.

Go back to playing My Little Pony.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Go back to playing My Little Pony.

Or at least something much lighter like Final Fantasy 7 or something.

Fluent,

Have you played Netrunner Card Game?

Terrible? I think it sounds pretty awesome. Although I'm pretty sure those examples will not make it into the game I do have high hopes for the setting.

Originally Posted by henriquejr
Fluent,

Have you played Netrunner Card Game?

Nope, never heard of it. I don't play many (or any) card games, really.

Originally Posted by tomasp3n
Terrible? I think it sounds pretty awesome. Although I'm pretty sure those examples will not make it into the game I do have high hopes for the setting.

I just say it's terrible because I'm more of a Tolkien/D&D/etc. type of fantasy guy.

But I did bring up Final Fantasy 7 as a play on that. That game had a steampunk fantasy setting and was quite dark at times with a menacing, urban city of death and decay called Midgar which also had a large corporation (Shin-Ra Corp.) sucking the very life energy out of the planet (Mako energy) to power the city, etc. And to this day it remains one of the most atmospheric and well-done RPGs because of that setting. It does however also mix in traditional fantasy elements as well and many of the towns and locations in the game are not quite like Midgar and lean more towards the typical sleepy little hamlets as seen in other fantasy RPGs.

Originally Posted by Fluent
I just say it's terrible because I'm more of a Tolkien/D&D/etc. type of fantasy guy.

I think what you really mean is Forgotten Realms. There are a lot of non-traditinal-fantasy campain settings with a D&D ruleset.

Originally Posted by tomasp3n
Terrible? I think it sounds pretty awesome. Although I'm pretty sure those examples will not make it into the game I do have high hopes for the setting.

The first one, about getting someone close to you kidnapped/killed, is a generalization of something Mike Pondsmith said in a video presentation for Cyberpunk 2077 (I can't remember which one). It was more of a setting thing, than about the game though.

The gang turf war should be at least half a thing, unless the gangs of Night City are ignored. They are very territorials, but unless you live in the lawless Combat Zone, low chance of a turf war near where you live.

Corporation and their wars are a huge part of the PnP. The last campaign supplement is the 4th Corporate war and Mike Pondsmith said 2077 will show the fallout of that (literally, it ended with a tactical nuke).

The trailer is how a cyberpsycho going on a rampage would end. It probably wasn't a music show though…

Well, few interesting quotes:

… your style and personality will have deep and far-reaching effects on the world and how it reacts to you. “We will have several features that allow you to create your [visual] style, and your style will affect gameplay, storyline and relationships between characters,”

Cyberpunk has style over substance motto, so likely will have some kind of wardrobe/appearance "checks" in how they respond to your character or plays into impressing/intimidating Npc's.

“It’s about telling story via what happens, not cutscenes or other features,” Mateusz says. “To do that we need to create a totally new unique dialogue system – we’re doing that right now…

Some kind of new, I'm guessing more interactive features with dialogue