Why getting ahead in school and being forced to not learn screws people

I am speaking from experience.

I was learning 7th or 8th grade maths in grade 3, my current friend in another state also did the same. We were both forced to do the same work as other kids in grade 4. We both experienced rewards for no work during that time where we weren't learning anything. It became a drug and we started just accepting it and getting the rewards for it. We didn't want to do work after that. My friend got out of that pit recently and I am slowly working to get out of it now at 37 years old.

My different other friend won the prizes at the science fairs and dropped out of school in grade 10 because he was just bored. He is currently on welfare and isn't looking to get a job.

I guess this is how great minds think alike? I don't know. But I feel like throughout the ages we missed out on many Nikola Teslas because of this and it may be that science has slowed because of this where we aren't seeing jumps in science that have occurred in the past. I know this is similar to the other thread I made but I have had a lot of new information since then.

Not sure if you're joking.

The society is all about mediocrity and averageness. So what. It's sheep that'll buy junk later and it's good for economy (at least for China economy). It's sheep that will all pay for any worthless thing a microtransaction of 1$ and will make someone who knows how to make wool a millionaire.
You, hopefully, will be the one who sells the junk and not the one who buys horse armor.

Why exactly you consider yourself screwed? If you're not happy with your life, that's what you get by joining the herd you're not a part of. Stop adapting to those who discuss only mundane stuff and move on already.
Not all junkbuying sheep are same, some have unique skills, skills you don't possess. They're not happy either with their "surroundings". And you're not doing anything to make them happy. Well, find them already.
No lollygaggin'.

Yea, we didn't get new Teslas, but not because of what you suggest.
We missed them out because murders. It's not just wars and terrorism, there are interests based murders too where stopping the progress makes more money in the short term. But if I go on about it, this will become P&R section material so will just stop here.

Hi Damian,

It's true that most schools are deigned around the norm. The exceptional student is left to take care of themselves, often to their detriment. Often the teachers are overloaded trying to take care of their standard students.

Then you have what turns out to be a system that is actually discriminatory against the high hormone levels of boys -- typical boys have a very hard time sitting still and keeping quiet for anything over 45 minutes or so, and so they can easily end up in constant trouble despite good intentions…

I didn't think I'd survive school. But I somehow did; then college and then graduate studies but feeling worried and behind every step of the way…

The strategy that worked for me -- against the advice of every councilor I ever had -- was getting after school jobs; then part time daily jobs in college; and full time jobs in graduate studies.

I know you're out of school now; but its the 'why' of the jobs thing -- that I'm telling you this, as that 'why' might be might possibly be helpful to you.

What I later realized was that those jobs game me a sense of worth that I never got from the schools that weren't designed for me. The part time job pay check every week -- and interacting with people and customers at work -- those things made me feel that I had value…

So maybe if you could find some low pay work you might be surprised. Maybe you'd have another reason to keep walking forward on the road of life. And another reason feel decent from time to time, or at least feel engaged… No guarantees. But maybe worth a try…

Life can be challenging and damn tough. But if you can keep walking, it can often be surprising what good things you can see along the way.

All the best to you.

__

@Joxer I just feel I am the best I could have been, I feel like i was conditioned to do very little in the long run. The drug is so strong that i feel i need to rehabilitated and that is exactly what I am going through.

@Rpgfool As i said before, I am going to I hope to do some jobs for free at the local nursing home. As for paid jobs it will be a lot harder, not working for so long puts a stigma on you and no one gives you a chance as they tend to think you are a liability straight up. I think I will start on my Christian book soon, so i have something to do when i have nothing to do.

Originally Posted by Damian
@Joxer I just feel I am the best I could have been, I feel like i was conditioned to do very little in the long run.

And that's bad why exactly?
Everything dies and deteriorates. Why should you care about conditioning or something? Man, you don't know if a car will hit you tomorrow.

Stop thinking about the universe, it existed before you and will exist after. Concentrate on reachable stuff that makes you happy. Stuff around you that you're constantly ignoring. Someone around there is eager for love yet you're wasting time on some forums.

Originally Posted by joxer
And that's bad why exactly?
Everything dies and deteriorates. Why should you care about conditioning or something? Man, you don't know if a car will hit you tomorrow.

Because I would have liked to achieve the most that i could out of myself. That is not for anyone else but my own self satisfaction. I would have liked to know i tried my best at life on my deathbed.

Stop thinking about the universe, it existed before you and will exist after. Concentrate on reachable stuff that makes you happy. Stuff around you that you're constantly ignoring. Someone around there is eager for love yet you're wasting time on some forums.

Society has that made that especially troublesome for someone at my age. At my age, the women who aren't married aren't good partners in general and come with heavy baggage of kids who will never really accept me as their father. If I go for a casual relationship, there is a chance that a crazy woman will used a used condom to impregnate herself and disappear and charge me child support. The odds just aren't in my favour if i try in that regard. I know there is a chance i could be extremely happy with the result but the penalty of failing in this regard is too great a price to pay for it.

I remember learning very little new during Standard 3 and 4 (ages 8-9). It was super frustrating and I got my dad to give me a homework assignment to give me some challenge in the end and tried to push myself at home by reading books much ahead of my reading level. It is frustrating Damian so I sympathize. The best thing to do I think is to set yourself some challenges. The internet is a wonderful resource and I really wish it was available when I was younger but it is available now and I use it to teach myself programming and improve my art skills.

One problem with many traditional forms of education is that they emphasize memorization over personal opinion or individual interpretation of so-called facts.

Originally Posted by Damian
Because I would have liked to achieve the most that i could out of myself. That is not for anyone else but my own self satisfaction. I would have liked to know i tried my best at life on my deathbed.

I get you, I wanted to learn psychokinetic ability of bending metal yet a friend of mine who could do it moved to Belgium before sharing the secret with me. Which doesn't mean she won't return ever, I can wait.
Luckily I enjoy and chased many other unusual stuff so I switched my focus elsewhere. You, for some reason, seems to me at least, do not want to make more different plans. Or submerge in simple chaos then make the most of it.
One more thing. I don't care what happens on my or your deathbed. It's a normal biological process that can't be avoided so why would I think about that now - to quote silly movies: "that bridge will be crossed when we get there".

Originally Posted by Damian
Society has that made that especially troublesome for someone at my age.

Socitey… Didn't I mention in the first post results of joining the wrong herd?
Stop being paranoic, forget baggages and pregnancies already. Do you seriously believe you're the only one among 10 billions of people? Escape that prison you've created in your mind.
No it won't be easy as writing about it on forums. It will be troublesome. So what. Just do it.

Originally Posted by NewDArt
One problem with many traditional forms of education is that they emphasize memorization over personal opinion or individual interpretation of so-called facts.

So called fact is that because so called smartphones we don't remember anyone's phone number any more. That's not a traditional form of education. To some it might be a positive thing.
But I believe you wanted to say they emphasize blind acceptance of cult personalities and myths like Germany occupying Slovakia in a movie you recommend - something that didn't really happen. Just like a widely accepted idiocy that mayan culture didn't use wheel.

Hi Damian

Try this: Keep on Dancing -- YouTube.

The truth is -- get engaged with life -- and you'll see things you wouldn't see otherwise.

The nursing home help is a good idea.

Looking at different options, one approach for evaluating ideas that helps a lot of us is ask: "What is the worst that can happen if it doesn't work?"

Generally we learn that even if it doesn't work out it's pretty much a "So what?" situation and if it does work out it could be good.

Keep on Trucking!! Keep on Dancing.

Help people.

Best regards.

__

"Why getting ahead in school and being forced to not learn screws people."
Plenty of things to learn on the school yard, at home, during holidays and in free time. Not all that is valuable gets rewarded by teachers/society.

“ah, life— the thing that happens to us while we’re off somewhere else blowing on dandelions & wishing ourselves into the pages of our favorite fairy tales.”
Amanda Lovelace.

Originally Posted by Damian
I would have liked to know i tried my best at life on my deathbed.

I hope you won't regret not having enjoyed life more when on your death bed.

Originally Posted by Eye
I hope you won't regret not having enjoyed life more when on your death bed.

Honestly while I am not going to regret it for those reasons, I am already regretting it. I feel I could have done something that could have benefited society as a whole, so not being able to do my best means I can never know if I could have. I just have to come to terms with that.

Enjoying life has never been a priority for me, frankly if I had to live a horrible life for the benefit of society, I would choose that option 100% of the time.

School sux.

Hmm… My mother doesnt want me working at the nursing home because I have a weak constitution and will get more diseases and spread more diseases at the home and at the nursing home. Does anyone here have any experience working at nursing homes? My mom is suggesting to work at a local book store restocking and reordering books. It probably would be less satisfying but it would probably be better for everyone involved.

Not sure if I should comment but I will…

Life is happening right now, we are specs on that really don't mater no matter what we do.

They're far to many of us for any one "SYSTEM" to care about anything but the masses…so do what you must to be happy and fuck everything else.

Originally Posted by CelticFrost
Not sure if I should comment but I will…

Life is happening right now, we are specs on that really don't mater no matter what we do.

They're far to many of us for any one "SYSTEM" to care about anything but the masses…so do what you must to be happy and fuck everything else.

I dont know if i can agree with that and be happy about it, what is the point in life if you can make someone else's life a little better? You and your wife are firefighters iirc, you arent doing that because because that is the best way to make the most money but because you feel good when you help people. The human organism naturally feels good when helping others even when it isnt beneficial to itself hence why it has exploded over the years.

LOL - From nothing, to, Spoiled by Choice!!

It ain't all bad man.

Here's what I think -- for what it's worth (about what you paid for it).

At the end of the day it wouldn't be bad to do some of both.

But first of all -- figure out a way to get your mom talking. Then listen to her. And listen. And listen.

My sense is that your mom has a story she needs to tell. And you may need to listen for a long time before she can bear to tell you. Gotta nod and say, uh huh, and listen and nod some more… and more

Nursing homes are - believe it or not - damned difficult places, Typically they can't hire enough nurses. They all get burned out. Fast. So they try to hire more. But they can't keep enough, Always behind.

Hall full of wheel chairs, Old men. Old ladies. Empty eyes.

All drugged up. Because the doctors don't know what to do. And they abandon the people to the nurses, Who know even less what to do.

So they give them medicine to help them sleep. And put them in wheel chairs. And roll them into the hall -- where there's a bit of sunshine,

But you can listen to them too. And maybe someone will smile for a moment. And be happy because you listened…

But sometime your mom was there. And saw. And it broke her heart. She doesn't want to tell you because it hurts and she doesn't know what to do -- how to make it better.

Maybe someone wanted her to put your dad there. And she wisely said no.

Really there's no answer except if you can hold an old hand for a minute -- and look into young eyes -- and listen… and you'll probably burn out fast too -- maybe not… or maybe so… bot just listen and smile for a few minutes of eternity…

The go to the book store, Work and meet some people. Put some coins into your pocket. And see those eyes every now and then. And a smile you caused.

What could be better?

But ask your mom. Big broad questions.

And listen. And listen.

And know she loves you.

Best regards.

__

Originally Posted by Damian
My different other friend won the prizes at the science fairs and dropped out of school in grade 10 because he was just bored. He is currently on welfare and isn't looking to get a job.

Look at this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underachiever
This term is much better explained on the German-language Wikipedia page.

Another interesting thing is the direct opposite of that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overachievement

Are "overachievers" synonymous with "hard workers"?

I dunno. I mean, I don't know much about "overachievers" at all. I know a few bits of the opposite of that.
I do know, however, that "hard workers" *can* get very good results. Like my sister, for example. I saw that a few times when she was at school. (She is several years younger than me.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_giftedness
(The German-language article is much longer and better, I think. Seems to me as if there had been more work on this topic in German-speaking countries.)

I just got the impression that you and your friend might have been "intellectually gifted" (that's the English term I know for that; the German term for that is "Hochbegabt") over the norm, because of that :

We both experienced rewards for no work during that time where we weren't learning anything.

That - in my impression - surely isn't the norm. People usually *have* to work at some point for that - but getting rewards for good results with doing no work ? That's a thing I only know from more or less "intellectually gifted ones". I even know a tale or two from people being able to do just that : Being very, very good at school without even having to learn for that,m preoducing excellent results, that might have been even over the norm, too.

The other ide of this coin is that people with being "gifted" (as the term says) over the norm often can get bored if they don't get appropriate challenges - which might happen at school - especially at school if there isn't any teacher or other person trained top cope with "giftedness".
The result might be "gifted" pupils falling into some kind of "black hole" because they get utterly bored because have no challenge anymore. They might even become anti-social because of that boredom, disturbing regular school lessons. And these people become so-called "underachievers".

[Note that the German language, which has adoped or even created the term "underachiever" [German teacher a few years ago to me : "Ah, that's how they call that nowadays !"] has the plural form of "underachiever" being "underachiever" with no "s" at the end.]