Baldur's Gate 3 - Yet More Rumours

It's called immaturity. I remember it well from school about say… the C64 and Spectrum but these people aren't real gamers! They are just the chaff the scene got on board. They didn't like games that implement thinking and intelligence! They were going to be the downfall of REAL gaming! I shrugged my shoulders and went on by…

The story about the bhaalspawn is finished.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
PG cRPG gamers have been getting bad about this (though I've only been e-ranted) but you see if between rival consoles, too.

And the reason for this is that the games that PC cRPG games like to play have been disappearing. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I play games far less often than I used to. It's not elitism to complain when you see your favorite hobby gradually getting destroyed. This debate didn't exist seven years ago when games like Baldurs Gate 2 and Deus Ex were coming out. I think that the reaction of PC gamers to games like Invisible War and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel is pretty tame compared how console gamers would react if every single one of their favorite series (e.g. Halo, Grand Turismo, Final Fantasy) were given the same treatment.

Originally Posted by Ausir
Depends on which Chris Taylor you mean. Confusingly, there are two Chris Taylors known in the industry - the Dungeon Siege one and the Fallout one.

Actually, I was thinking about the one responsible for Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander

Originally Posted by JDR13
Actually, I was thinking about the one responsible for Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander

Don't forget Dungeon Siege

Take your pick of Chris Taylors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Taylor

It seems the Chris Taylor who developed Fallout is actually named Christopher Taylor, which therefore makes it easier for us to distinguish between him and the Chris Taylor of Dungeon Siege, Space Siege, Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander fame.

Wow there's a wikipedia page for everything.

By the way, does anyone remember back in about 2004 when PC Gamer reported that BG3 was already in development? I wonder if this rumor is about that same game, or if that game was cancelled.

Originally Posted by JemyM
The story about the bhaalspawn is finished.

True, but since when has continuation of the preceding installment been a requirement for sequels?

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that sequels, especially RPG sequels, more often that not tend to start with new stories. NWN1->NWN2 is a good example. Even Interplay's BG3 was not going to be a continuation of the bhaalspawn story.

Let's face it, a game called "Baldur's Gate 3" will only be done so for product recognition purposes.

Originally Posted by Thaurin
Bla, bla, bla, bla. It's great that this site is PC-oriented and all, but the elitist PC gamers are really tiresome. Do you feel special? RPG Codex is the same. So sad.

Come back when you grow over 12 and gain a brain.

Originally Posted by doctor_kaz
What exactly does "pushing technology" mean?

Apparently, it means you can't use certain perspective. Because advanced technology means you have less options for camera perspectives in the game…

…

…wait, how does that make any sense?

Aha, so Bethesda has acquired a new IP to transfer into glorious first person 3D realtime?


One design to rule them all, one perspective to find them, one company to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them…

Originally Posted by doctor_kaz
And the reason for this is that the games that PC cRPG games like to play have been disappearing. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I play games far less often than I used to. It's not elitism to complain when you see your favorite hobby gradually getting destroyed. …

See? That's EXACTLY the same things the WarGamer dude said to us about RPGs and the RPG dude said to use about CCGs and yet here we are 30-ish (15-ish for the RPG dude) years later and both wargames and rpgs are still around and going strong. Yah, they don't dominate sales the way the used to and a lot of companies died off. But that's just business.

Too bad there wasn't something that came along after CCGs and stole their thunder. I have no doubt if I was sitting at a table playing game X some MtG guy would come along and …

I'll have to take your word for it, because I never heard anyone in my life who played hardcore war strategy games complain about table top RPGs. These games existed side-by-side for decades. They were completely different games and they did not cannibalize one another. Nor did I ever hear table top gamers complain about computer games. The last table top group that I was in (six years ago) enjoyed the Baldurs Gate Fallout quite a bit. Table top gaming is still alive and well and I would bet that its audience has not decreased since the 1980's. Your comparison is also not valid because strategy games and RPG's didn't show up on the computer in a drastically simplified form. Computer strategy games target essentially the same crowd as old table top strategy games. I should know this because I was once an avid table top wargamer. If anything, strategy games like Civilization or Starcraft are far more complex than old tabletop hexmap based games like Afrika Korps, because the computer keeps track of all of the rules for you.

Originally Posted by Brother None
Apparently, it means you can't use certain perspective. Because advanced technology means you have less options for camera perspectives in the game….

That and fewer other options too, like choosing which attitude to display when entering a room, which style to employ during a negotiation, which feint during a fight. Never mind how boldly or carefully you might want to walk down an unexplored dark corridor or what mercy or cruelty you might want to show an enemy. Your choices are all inhibited by the limits of graphical interpretation where everything has to be expressed pictorially.

Originally Posted by Brother None
Apparently, it means you can't use certain perspective. Because advanced technology means you have less options for camera perspectives in the game…

Are you sure that you're not over-interpreting this?

Originally Posted by doctor_kaz
And the reason for this is that the games that PC cRPG games like to play have been disappearing. […] It's not elitism to complain when you see your favorite hobby gradually getting destroyed. This debate didn't exist seven years ago when games like Baldurs Gate 2 and Deus Ex were coming out. I think that the reaction of PC gamers to games like Invisible War and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel is pretty tame compared how console gamers would react if every single one of their favorite series (e.g. Halo, Grand Turismo, Final Fantasy) were given the same treatment.

Yeah, you're right, I guess. I'll just shut up in the future then and let people gripe about whatever the hell they want then. The thing just is, I like both sides of the equation and don't think technological progress is a bad thing. In fact, I'm a big fan of it. I can see how people whose most favourite pastime is turn-based strategy and isometric turn-based RPG's would be annoyed… but that still doesn't make anything else you're not into "trash."

Hell, I played for whole days at a time when I got Baldur's Gate years ago. I don't want to see that genre go. But times do change. It can't really be stopped. Like the point-and-click adventures from Sierra and LucasArts… will we keep seeing releases like that or will it become underground, amateur and indy only? I hope not. I hope there'll be room for everything, but… yeah.

Originally Posted by The Watchman
Come back when you grow over 12 and gain a brain.

Smart comment! But you're way off on my age. You could probably be my kid! I'll leave the brain thing for you to decide.

Originally Posted by Brother None
Apparently, it means you can't use certain perspective. Because advanced technology means you have less options for camera perspectives in the game…

But why would anyone want an isometric view over a top-down 3D view these days? I guess it has its fans, but I enjoy 3D so much better as far as immersion is concerned… from a strategic point of view, I guess isometric makes sense. Anyway, first-person Baldur's Gate 3 wouldn't make any sense at all.

I am all for it, at least it can't be any worse than the first two!

Originally Posted by JDR13
So the elitist console gamers are less tiresome?

Oxymoron.

Oops, guess im an elitist pc gamer heh.

Originally Posted by Thaurin
But why would anyone want an isometric view over a top-down 3D view these days?

Because having to swirl the camera around to the right angle constantly ruins the gameplay. (c.f. Neverwinter Nights to Baldur's Gate, Heroes of Might and Magic 5 to its prequels, etc)

If only game makers would understand that just because it's 3D doesn't mean you need to use a perspective camera - an axonometric one is much better suited for some types of games.