Interplay vs Bethesda Fallout: Indigo Gaming

These videos just keep showing up in my feed, so I've no choice but to post them here:

This. Thanks Plushy.

FO 1&2 were great for their time. I quite enjoy exploring the wasteland in 3D though.

Sadly, rpgs shifted to being heavily combat oriented and pacifist playthroughs in most of them became nearly impossible. I understand games like Witcher doing it (can W3 be played without killing anyone? I haven't played it yet.), Geralt is a monster hunter and is not a stranger to killing a man either, we're playing a predefined character. But if you're going to give me a blank slate like in Skyrim, don't force me to kill anyone. If I want to I will, if I don't I won't. That's why I loved Dishonored - for all the hand holding, floating quest marker stuff (you could turn off) there was a fun and old school gameplay almost ripped straight from original Thief and Deus Ex.

RPGs have always been heavily combat oriented. Classic series like Wizardry, Might & Magic, Bard's Tale, Ultima, etc, had just as much if not more combat than most of the RPGs being made today.

Originally Posted by JDR13
RPGs have always been heavily combat oriented.

Yes, and that despite other ways being possible., It only requires a bit more programming.

In my opinion, they are and always were so much combat-oriented, because that's what a male player would expect from a game of getting into power. You just don't amass power by helping poor people. You do so by being ruthless, either being in economy, politics or in combat. Altrusim never helped sopmeone getting into a position of power, that's why games were never considered to have this. In a male world, it's all about competition, not about altruism.

The other point I think of is that this is in my opinion very much of an cultural expert from the U.S. into the rest of the world. From the U.S. where using violence to "make peace" is fully accepted by society. That outcry of black citizens about white policemen shooting innocent citizens is just the newest addition of that . People slowly begin to realize that violens as means to solve conflicts can create more dead participants than if another method than shooting was used.

But shooting others to solve a conflict is far, far, far too deep, deep, deep embedded into U.S. culture now, that's why you'öll never ever see C-RPGs with being entirely combat-less.

Because that would be Adventure games,
and Adventure Games are very, very useless for males who want to roleplay coming into a position of power.

I love all the Fallout's personally. I don't mind the direction the series went honestly. Fallout 4 is visually stunning. I loved the depth in NV.

Thank God! Bethesda made something worth playing today. I haven't seen any of the guys from Interplay have that kind of success. I'm sure glad Bethesda didn't go down the tubes like Interplay. Change or die. Guess which Interplay did….

Originally Posted by JDR13
RPGs have always been heavily combat oriented. Classic series like Wizardry, Might & Magic, Bard's Tale, Ultima, etc, had just as much if not more combat than most of the RPGs being made today.

Yeah, you're right, but back then you also had games like Fallout, Arcanum and Planescape where you can solve most of the situation without combat. Such option is largely missing from modern RPGs.

Yep that's true. You know why? None of those games sold very well. The games with lots of combat did sell, so developers make what sells. You will occasionally get a game without combat and lots of choice and consequence. None of them make any money and the companies disappear after a game or two.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
Yep that's true. You know why? None of those games sold very well. The games with lots of combat did sell, so developers make what sells. You will occasionally get a game without combat and lots of choice and consequence. None of them make any money and the companies disappear after a game or two.

Sad but true…

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
Yeah, you're right, but back then you also had games like Fallout, Arcanum and Planescape where you can solve most of the situation without combat. Such option is largely missing from modern RPGs.

Have you played Torment: Tides of Numenera yet? It has a lot less combat than any of those games.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
Yep that's true. You know why? None of those games sold very well. The games with lots of combat did sell, so developers make what sells. You will occasionally get a game without combat and lots of choice and consequence. None of them make any money and the companies disappear after a game or two.

Well, given the laughing stock reception Bethesda got with Fallout 4, I hope they disappear as well once they, yet again, fail to evolve for their next game. You can only suck the marrow from a rotting corpse for so long and, if the reviews for FO4 are any hint, that time is quickly drawling to a close.

But, then again, if Michael Bay can be a successful director, rationality doesn't necessarily matter when it comes to $100 million mass marketing and the consumerism that goes along with it.

Originally Posted by Kelefane
I love all the Fallout's personally. I don't mind the direction the series went honestly. Fallout 4 is visually stunning. I loved the depth in NV.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Have you played Torment: Tides of Numenera yet? It has a lot less combat than any of those games.

That is a good point. I went the path of doing very little combat (granted partly because it wasn't that good although I loved the game as a whole) and found it rather refreshing. I am not too combat focused so tend to play many games on easy so I don't have to focus on it as much. The one exception is FO4 which I play on survival mode with mods to reduce experience gain and make it harder. I really enjoy the combat and exploring … and well the whole game.

D&D has combat too for some reason

An RPG without combat is called an Adventure Game.

I believe it was in Pirate Cove when you typed "kill parrot" it responded, "You can't kill people in this game. If you want to do that, go play Maces and Magic!"

Originally Posted by JDR13
Have you played Torment: Tides of Numenera yet? It has a lot less combat than any of those games.

Not yet, but that is one niche game in the sea of combat oriented games

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
D&D has combat too for some reason

An RPG without combat is called an Adventure Game.

I believe it was in Pirate Cove when you typed "kill parrot" it responded, "You can't kill people in this game. If you want to do that, go play Maces and Magic!"

It should not be without combat, the combat should be optional.
I have nothing against combat in games, but I like to have other options.

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
Yeah, you're right, but back then you also had games like Fallout, Arcanum and Planescape where you can solve most of the situation without combat. Such option is largely missing from modern RPGs.

Those type of RPGs have always been pretty rare but I do love being giving options to avoid combat, when it makes sense.

One recent release where you can do pacifist playthroughs that comes immediately to mind is Age of Decadence. (Of course this is only true w/ certain backgrounds, mercenaries and assassins will have to fight sometimes).

Shadowrun Hong Kong also has quite a few missions you can complete without any combat if you have the right skills, and Shadowrun Dragonfall had a few, too.

Expeditions: Viking sometimes lets you avoid fights through diplomacy; you can't do a pacifist playthrough by any means but you can choose to use non-lethal attacks in every fight, which sometimes affects things.

And an upcoming crpg that will have little combat (basically none in the traditional sense) is "No Truce With the Furies".

Copper Dreams is going to let you potentially avoid a lot of combat with Stealth.

Also check out the Aversions on this TV Tropes page: RPGs Equal Combat

I played Deus Ex: Human Revolution without killing a soul. I killed only a few people in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided too. I didn't kill a single human in Prey either. Okay…there is a reason for that on the last one.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
I played Deus Ex: Human Revolution without killing a soul. I killed only a few people in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided too. I didn't kill a single human in Prey either. Okay…there is a reason for that on the last one.

Well, you actually have to kill 3 people in Deus Ex: HR, but those are instances in which you have no control.

I didn't kill anyone in Prey either. In fact, I rescued everyone that could be saved.