Grimoire Support Group

it's a lot of effort to play

Git gud. This game obviously isn't designed around accessibility. I guess Wizardry 6, the Citizen Kane of RPGs, is also shit because it takes so much effort to play it.

Originally Posted by Pongo
I like rolling characters with a random element. I guess that's my P&P background coming out! I find it makes item hunting more interesting, eg when one of your characters that rolled a poor score finds an item that counters it. For example, in D&D the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength can be a godsend for fighters that rolled less than 18 strength, but if you can just select 18 at character creation you don't need it as much (except for non-fighters of course).
It's too early for me to say whether it is well handled in Grimoire (i haven't been able to play it since Saturday….) but random attribute rolls definitely don't concern me in principle.

I have a P&P background as well. It's perfectly possible to gimp your own character in a smart design - you don't need random rolls for that.

If you absolutely must have a random approach, then the smart design is to include both options.

Enforcing random rolls is utterly, utterly stupid.

Originally Posted by NewDArt
I have a P&P background as well. It's perfectly possible to gimp your own character in a smart design - you don't need random rolls for that.

If you absolutely must have a random approach, then the smart design is to include both options.

Enforcing random rolls is utterly, utterly stupid.

Fair enough. It doesn't bother me if it is the design he wanted, but I can see how it might annoy others .

Originally Posted by SirJames
Seems like thrown weapons vanish altogether

Originally Posted by SirJames
You can actually roll characters that start with 1 hitpoint!

Those are intentional.

Originally Posted by SirJames
random levelup points encourage save scumming

You have OCD. Just accept how level-up points are allocated and you will find your experience a lot more spontaneous and enjoyable. Also, you omitted the fact that you get a portion of points to distribute yourself. It's the best of both worlds, in fact.

Originally Posted by Pongo
Fair enough. It doesn't bother me if it is the design he wanted, but I can see how it might annoy others .

Well, if his preferences are your preferences - then it makes sense

Originally Posted by luj1
Those are completely intentional.



You have OCD. Just accept how level-up points are allocated and you will find your experience a lot more enjoyable. Also, you omitted the fact you get a portion of points to distribute yourself.

Yes, yes - a game where the player must accept something he doesn't like to be able to enjoy it.

Masterful

Originally Posted by NewDArt
Yes, yes - a game where the player must accept something he doesn't like to be able to enjoy it.

To be fair, isn't that the same in most games? Most games have design elements I don't like. If there are too many I stop playing.

Originally Posted by Pongo
To be fair, isn't that the same in most games? Most games have design elements I don't like. If there are too many I stop playing.

Certainly it is - but that doesn't mean those elements represent good design.

Originally Posted by NewDArt
Yes, yes - a game where the player must accept something he doesn't like to be able to enjoy it.

Masterful

Ugh, now you are just being unreasonable d'Art. You don't have to accept anything you don't want to. By all means, feel free to not play Grimoire . Have you bought it? I told you to get the demo first. If so, there is no one else to blame but yourself.

Originally Posted by luj1
Ugh, now you are just being unreasonable d'Art. You don't have to accept anything you don't want. By all means, feel free to not play Grimoire . Have you bought it? I told you to get the demo first. There is no one else to blame but yourself.

You're confused. I responded to your suggestion to SirJames.

Just accept how level-up points are allocated and you will find your experience a lot more enjoyable.

It would seem you're saying that he needs to accept something he doesn't like - as a clear defensive statement about the game.

Again, a pretty sure sign that you don't really care about his preferences - only your own.

If I'm to take your advice about Grimoire seriously - you really have to display a reasonable point of view.

Everything being perfect about it - and everyone not loving it being "wrong" - is not a reasonable point of view.

Why don't you give me a few examples of what's bad about Grimoire?

Originally Posted by Pongo
For example, in D&D the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength can be a godsend for fighters that rolled less than 18 strength, but if you can just select 18 at character creation you don't need it as much

Good Fighters don't roll less than 18 STR!

Originally Posted by luj1
You have OCD. Just accept how level-up points are allocated and you will find your experience a lot more spontaneous and enjoyable. Also, you omitted the fact that you get a portion of points to distribute yourself. It's the best of both worlds, in fact.

It's not OCD. Building the characters is half the fun. You should have seen all the crazy builds I made in Neverwinter Nights. I can hardly even remember now.

like….. paladin 2, monk 2, sorcerer 28 with CHA bonus to all saves and shit.

That said, I think Grimoire is a true demonstration of the magic of computer games.

I mean, what other kind of entertainment could possible turn luj1 into Fluent

Originally Posted by luj1
Git gud.

1v1?! Come tell me to git gud in Dark Souls 2 arena

Haha okay. When you come onto CSGO or DotA for an ass-whoopin ;P

Originally Posted by SirJames
It's not OCD. Building the characters is half the fun. You should have seen all the crazy builds I made in Neverwinter Nights. I can hardly even remember now.

like….. paladin 2, monk 2, sorcerer 28 with CHA bonus to all saves and shit.

Me too, I absolutely loved building in Nwn. But I have to be fair here, this is a completely different system I am able to enjoy. Personally, I see nothing wrong with them rolls. It doesn't provoke save scumming in me. I find that liberating actually because I don't have to obsess over "perfect builds". Pongo talked about that perspective. Makes my gameplay more spontaneous (and I can still allocate points).

Originally Posted by NewDArt
If I'm to take your advice about Grimoire seriously - you really have to display a reasonable point of view.

Look dart, I'm not a salesman. You asked. I told you like it is. Didn't try to sugar coat it. If you didn't like Wizardry you won't like Grimoire.

Originally Posted by NewDArt
Why don't you give me a few examples of what's bad about Grimoire?

• Poor accessibility
• Visibility of information
• Some balance issues right now
• Hunger mechanic isn't implemented
• a better journal

They are non-issues for me, but I did my best. I'm sure there'll be more once I get beyond Avian Mountains.

Originally Posted by luj1
Look dart, I'm not a salesman. You asked. I told you like it is. Didn't try to sugar coat it. If you didn't like Wizardry you won't like Grimoire.

Well, you're acting like a salesman

• Poor accessibility
• Visibility of information
• Some balance issues right now
• Hunger mechanic isn't implemented
• a better journal

The first two are the same.

That's it? Not fundamental issues or design flaws?

Originally Posted by SirJames
It's not OCD.

In a way it is. It's Control Freakism, IMO. A lot of us RPG gamers have that, where we need/want to control every minute aspect of the game. That's why I think a lot of people get frustrated and generally dislike RNG, because it makes them feel cheated or not in control. Probably a subconscious reason why a lot of folks dislike RTWP, too.

Not appreciating random rolls at creation has nothing to do with OCD for my part.

It has to do with wanting to play a specific type of character without having to waste a ton of time rolling until he becomes available. It is particularly stupid in a Wiz-like - because a lot of classes depend on specific stat numbers.

It's dunce game design 101.

I just think it's a different approach that leads to a different experience. I try and be open to different styles and experiences.