General News - The Future of Immersive Sims

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HiddenX

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PC Gamer thinks that the immersive sims sub-genre is in danger:

The uncertain future of games like Deus Ex and Dishonored

Immersive sims have been held up as the pinnacle of PC game design, but recent sales may mean the genre is endangered.

Warren Spector is stuck in Prey. The director of Deus Ex, who has worked on many games since labeled "immersive sims"—in fact, he coined the term in a post-mortem of Deus Ex —has been playing the modern games inspired by classics like Thief and System Shock. But he hasn't finished Prey yet. Or, as he puts it: "The crew quarters are kicking my butt."

He's enjoying it though, just as he enjoyed the other recent immersive sim from Arkane Studios, Dishonored 2. "I thought they were both excellent examples of what I think of when I say 'immersive sim,'" Spector says. "They removed barriers to belief that I was in another world and they let me approach problems as problems, rather than as puzzles. I'm really glad Arkane exists and that they're so committed to the genre. Without them I'd have fewer games to play!"

Spector's not the only one who'd mourn their loss. Arkane is still around, but there's this uneasy feeling in the air that there's now some reason to worry. Not about Arkane, necessarily, but the immersive sim in general, this genre held up as the shining example of PC gaming at its most smartest and most complex. None of the last three big-budget immersive sims—Prey, Dishonored 2, and Eidos Montreal’s Deus Ex: Mankind Divided—have broken a million sales on Steam.

It's always been a niche genre, defined by player freedom, environmental storytelling, and a lot of reading diary entries. How long can they be propped up by the fact that some designers really like making them?

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Thanks henriquejr!

More information.
 
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Well, I guess I know who to blame now for the phrase "immerse sim."
 
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It's always been a niche genre, defined by player freedom, environmental storytelling, and a lot of reading diary entries. How long can they be propped up by the fact that some designers really like making them?
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Mmm... forever? Or at least as long as niche products can still keep you in business.
 
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rjshae said:
Mmm… forever? Or at least as long as niche products can still keep you in business.
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Well Zenimax is big and can afford to make a few niche games through Arkane I'd think. They can always release TES VI if they need a few billion. :)
 
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Well, Star Citizen will be the ultimate immersive sim in several ways - so I'm not too worried.
 
What's always surprised me is why no-one's really tried to take the Skyrim model, and push it forward. I give Beth credit for what they've done, but I'm sure someone could take those elements of open world, highly customisable characters, and moddability, then just push the envelope a bit, with a better engine and more interesting lore, storytelling, and c&c.

I'm sure a number of studios could have a good bash at it, and I always think it's odd that somewhat similar games insist on fixed protagonists. It seems clear to me that the element of a Sims-like sandbox is so key to its appeal.
 
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I know. I expected someone to trump Bethesda by now too. It does need to be mod-friendly too though, I think. Those are the two elements that seem to be their forte. Still, the writing….

To me, the main quests are getting worse. Morrowind had a decent, complex story. Oblivion's was pretty good too, but the level scaling was out of whack. Fallout 3's was okay but nothing special. Skyrim's wasn't very good. The blades and dragons were just dull. Fallout 4 just reversed the tale of Fallout 3. There was almost no effort made on that story.

These are some of my favorite games, but it is in spite of the main/faction quests instead of because of them.
 
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Moddabilty isn't that hard to implement, though, especially the cosmetic stuff that seems to be most popular. That MMO, Ark Survival, is built with Unreal engine, and they've released a mod kit which is essentially a cut down version of the Unreal editor. I assume they made some sensible deal.

Even without that, keen modders could probably just use the free version of the full Unreal, and probably have a lot more flexibility than Beth's creation kit.
 
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None of the last three big-budget immersive sims—Prey, Dishonored 2, and Eidos Montreal’s Deus Ex: Mankind Divided—have broken a million sales on Steam.
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That's mind-boggling to me. Prey and DX:MD are two of the best games I've played recently.
 
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Immersive sims have been held up as the pinnacle of PC game design
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:rolleyes:
 
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Good article. The comment about many customers wanting to not have to think much or plan ahead during their games is apparently true, unfortunately, and it seems that a game which requires players to think would have to be very good and/or well-hyped (not just over-hyped) to sell well.
 
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I am very much aware that 'thinking games' broadly speaking are not in vogue. They are the games I vastly prefer after all and I have seen their numbers shrink markedly as time has gone on.

I blame the trend of accessibility and seeking a wider market. Core gamers of yesteryear who prefered thinking games have left the market altogether because few games were being made for them. Especially during the period from 2005-2010. They may come back again with the emergence of these recent titles but it will take time to build that market up I think.
 
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So, now the term shifted radically from

"sim" ( = SIM City )
into
"immersive Sim" ( = Prey ) ?

Which idiot is responsible for that ?
 
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I am not a fan of these games simply because I dislike any game with a strictly defined protagonist. The more I feel railroaded into a specific linear story and character the less I like it. I read books for that kind of experience.
 
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Alrik Fassbauer said:
So, now the term shifted radically from

"sim" ( = SIM City )
into
"immersive Sim" ( = Prey ) ?

Which idiot is responsible for that ?
Click to expand...


Supposedly it was coined decades ago but I never liked that term. The degree of immersion is subjective plus it varies from game to game. And all games are simulations of some sort.

As a side observation, it's obvious PCG are shilling full-throttle.
 
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This is more an elitist buzz word than anything else, open gameplay/ interactive systems is not something unique to the genre...hell, Far Cry allow a ton of opportunities on that front. And MGSV completely trumpets any "immersive sim" (man that name is starting to sound really dumb). Blacklist as well, last Zelda with it's famed open world physics....the list goes on.
They didn't succeed ( financially), as result of poor marketing, didn't have that wow! factor to attract attention of wide(r) audience, clearly relaying what it's about ( you can see it in latest Dishonored trailer), not because of some complexity unique to the genre.
Specter seems more like a prisoner of idea he "created".
 
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Both Prey and Dishonored 2 are on my 'play eventually' list, once I've cut down my backlog. Now I'm thinking I should buy them now, to give the sales numbers my support.
 
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Alrik Fassbauer said:
So, now the term shifted radically from

"sim" ( = SIM City )
into
"immersive Sim" ( = Prey ) ?

Which idiot is responsible for that ?
Click to expand...

It's not a surprise that people don't understand the concept as the genre is not the most popular one.

But this term came around because of the FOCUS of these games. Yes, other games can be immersive and have simulation aspects - but they're not FOCUSED on those aspects to the same degree.

I know it's terribly complicated - but I'll give it a go:

Immersive sims are games that focus on:

1. Immersion
2. Simulation of an environment

I know that's also terribly complicated - so let me explain:

Immersion, essentially, means focusing on making the player forget that he's playing a game. It's making every effort to put the player in the world and remove as many barriers as you can that would remind the player that he's playing a game.

Simulating an environment is really about the same thing. It's about creating a believable playspace - where the player isn't distracted by what he can't do, but instead entertained by what he CAN do - which is supporting the concept of immersion.

Those two concepts are extremely appropriate if you actually understand the genre and what it's trying to do.
 
wtf? Immersive sim?! the hell is that?

I thought I was on a board that uses english.
 
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