Blizzard - New Diablo Game Coming

Diablo 3 is the one with Whimsy Dale or whatever? Cute. I loved that.

All the marketing monies in the world won't save a turd product from looking like a turd. Gamers that I know TALK with other gamers, and share knowledge, much like we do here, but in person. Sure, they might make money, but I'd prefer having a good reputation, and companies like Electronic Arts and Blizzard sold theirs years ago. Once that stink is on a company, it is tough to cover, let alone dispel.

Originally Posted by Stingray
It's about marketing budget, not marketing skills. Those other companies don't have $50M lying around to market their game.

But I also agree with someone earlier (Archangel iirc) who said it was hype leftover from earlier Diablo games. I suspect that played an even bigger role than the marketing.

In any case, the two combined are the reason D3 sold well at release. At the time it was released it was a god-awful game. Sure it had a lot of flash and polish, so the reviews were decent, but once you got past your first run through all the acts, you realized how truly bad it was rather quickly. Obviously, it's been improved a lot since then, so that criticism is lessened, but the game set sales records right off the bat, and that was completely undeserved.

Except there are plenty of people (millions actually) who would disgree with that opinion.

Also, I don't believe we were talking only about sales at release but overall sales, and D3 continued to sell well over time.

Imo, the game is very average. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either. I seem to be in the minority here as most people apparently feel very strongly about it one way or the other. I get a kick out the the people who'll talk until they're blue in the face about how terrible the game is though. It isn't and never was. No amount of hype and marketing could have pushed that many copies (and kept millions playing for a prolonged period) if the game was terrible.

I share the opinion that Blizzard has went downhill over the years. They used to be one of my favorite developers back in the day, and now I barely pay any attention to them. Still, I find the over-the-top hate for them amusing sometimes. On the other hand, I also don't get how anyone could still consider them great.

Originally Posted by JDR13
No amount of hype and marketing could have pushed that many copies (and kept millions playing for a prolonged period) if the game was terrible.

You missed part of my point from my previous post. The game sold something like 3.5M copies in pre-orders/first day alone. Before anyone had even played it. So, yes, they really can push millions of copies, whether or not the game is terrible, based purely on the hype from previous Diablos + their marketing budget. That is also why I brought up the "on release" sales to begin with.

The sales continued later on, but the game was greatly improved later on as well, so at some point those later sales became more justified I suppose.

So? It had a ton of pre-orders because of marketing and the fact that it was a sequel to a very popular game.

How would that support someone's opinion that the game was terrible at release?

Originally Posted by JDR13
So? It had a ton of pre-orders because of marketing and the fact that it was a sequel to a very popular game.

Exactly, which was Cacheperl's point in the original message you replied to that kicked off this line of conversation. The game sold well (at least partially) thanks to marketing and other related factors, not its merits. So it sounds like we don't really even disagree anyway.

How would that support someone's opinion that the game was terrible at release?

It doesn't. Although I think it fairly obviously was. But that wasn't the point.

Originally Posted by ramses01
Path of Exile is the last place you want to look for inspiration as it is a giant steaming pile of horrible gameplay and design. Grim dawn is where you want to look for inspiration! Hell even Van Helsing games are vastly superior to PoE.

Ahh, good ol' ramses and his love for action…wait, Grim Dawn is good?

Well D3 combat, in it's raw mechanics ( audio and visual feedback) was objectively the best in genre. Also how they handled itemization/builds was better ( than before).

But it was too damn cartoonish, and out of place in the setting. And the story…bah!

I'm expecting world of Diablo with kickstarters for free money and a product like Conan or any of the other dozens of survival games.
Blah. Tired of survival games.

Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty
Ahh, good ol' ramses and his love for action…wait, Grim Dawn is good?

It's a pretty solid ARPG. It has a rather unique setting and a fun class system. I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot if you like ARPGs like Titan Quest (another solid ARPG made by the same team, though a bit older).

In contrast, I found Titan Quest & Grim Dawn both terribly boring, but Path of Exile very fun in how fast-paced it is (not to mention the ever-evolving content). They are definitely two different styles of A-RPG, so to each their own.

Nevertheless, D3 was utterly forgettable - in large part due to how Blizzard turned the somewhat grim setting of D2 into a very mediocre WoW-like experience with horrible writing and limited skillchoice. It was such a disappointment after its years in development.

I shall forever remember D3 as the hundred million dollar game that had a demon acting like some James Bond villain comedy act as he mystically taunted you. "Ooh, you will never make it to that location, oh no. Here, fight my lieutenant. Here, fight my other lieutenant."

Originally Posted by Drithius
In contrast, I found Titan Quest & Grim Dawn both terribly boring, but Path of Exile very fun in how fast-paced it is (not to mention the ever-evolving content). They are definitely two different styles of A-RPG, so to each their own.

Nevertheless, D3 was utterly forgettable - in large part due to how Blizzard turned the somewhat grim setting of D2 into a very mediocre WoW-like experience with horrible writing and limited skillchoice. It was such a disappointment after the years of development.

I shall forever remember D3 as the hundred million dollar game that had a demon acting like some James Bond villain comedy act as he mystically taunted you. "Ooh, you will never make it to that location, oh no. Here, fight my lieutenant. Here, fight my other lieutenant."

The limited skill choice thing was my main problem with D3. I wasn't really expecting some kind of incredible story (it wasn't a D3 thing, I just don't expect much from ARPGs in general), so I wasn't really all that let down in that regard. I didn't really care much for the graphics either, since they seemed to go in more of a WoW direction (giant shoulderpads included) instead of a grittier, more realistic style like what D1 and D2 seemed to have.

Originally Posted by Stingray
Exactly, which was Cacheperl's point in the original message you replied to that kicked off this line of conversation. The game sold well (at least partially) thanks to marketing and other related factors, not its merits. So it sounds like we don't really even disagree anyway.


It doesn't. Although I think it fairly obviously was. But that wasn't the point.

My point was that it's not one of the best selling games of all time from marketing alone which seemed to be the suggestion. It sold another 6.5 million copies over the course of the year after it was released. The best marketing in the world isn't moving that many copies unless there's actually something there that's appealing to the target audience.

Originally Posted by ramses01
Path of Exile is the last place you want to look for inspiration as it is a giant steaming pile of horrible gameplay and design. Grim dawn is where you want to look for inspiration! Hell even Van Helsing games are vastly superior to PoE.

It is so bad its playbase keeps rising with every league and Tencent bought it for over 100 million $ just recently… sure buddy. And that is without a brand name recognition like what Diablo/Blizzard had.

Originally Posted by azarhal
Blizzard already have:
- a MOBA (Heroes of the Storm)
- a mobile game TCG (Hearthstone)
- a MMORPG (WoW)
- a PvP multiplayer shooter game with heroes (Overwatch)
- a co-op looter series with Diablo.

But they hinted last month at doing a Battle Royal game…

If it makes lots of $$, you can bet Blizzard is going to make one of it and about a year after their game is released the internet will believe they invented the genre.

Wow just wow, you didn't mention Starcraft 2 … and it still has professional tournaments and it is more popular than Heroes of the Storm and Diablo 3 (atm).

Originally Posted by JDR13
Except there are plenty of people (millions actually) who would disgree with that opinion.

Also, I don't believe we were talking only about sales at release but overall sales, and D3 continued to sell well over time.

Imo, the game is very average. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either. I seem to be in the minority here as most people apparently feel very strongly about it one way or the other. I get a kick out the the people who'll talk until they're blue in the face about how terrible the game is though. It isn't and never was. No amount of hype and marketing could have pushed that many copies (and kept millions playing for a prolonged period) if the game was terrible.

I share the opinion that Blizzard has went downhill over the years. They used to be one of my favorite developers back in the day, and now I barely pay any attention to them. Still, I find the over-the-top hate for them amusing sometimes. On the other hand, I also don't get how anyone could still consider them great.

It is terrible when compared directly with Diablo 2. On its own it is an average game that can be fun for casual crowd that don't expect much.

I found D3 decent. No more, no less. Played through it with various classes and that's it really. I would probably do the same with D4, unless they continue down their "social gaming" road where multiplayer is mandatory.

It might very well not be D4 though, as others have pointed out. It's simply "more stuff in the Diablo setting", which doesn't automatically translate to D4. Could be anything.

Originally Posted by Archangel
On its own it is an average game that can be fun for casual crowd that don't expect much.

Yeah, I found it enjoyable enough with low expectation. It's just something you can do when you are short on time. Although I will never understand people making a new character each season - it really doesn't change much season to season to level up a character to max each time.

jdr doesnt seem to understand marketing very well, or is actualyl projecting more than he realizes in defending that dung

Well… can't be worse than Diablo 3.

… or can it?