Dungeon Lords Sequel and Expansion

OK, so an off-hand remark I made turned into a full thread hijack, so I'm starting a new thread:

Originally Posted by zyklop
Yeah, Chuck was indeed also surprinsingly honest, but i´m talking about Jeremy from DC (don´t know his full name). We´ve had contact by mail till he was fired.
Has someone infos about him?

Ah, yes … I dealt with him on the forums, but not outside of there. I haven't heard anything - you could always PM bgaum on the Dreamcatcher forums (assuming he is still there)

Originally Posted by zyklop
And are there any infos available about the developer of DL2?

I have heard nothing, and the press releases are surprisingly absent of any such details.

I have little doubt that I will get both of these - I have gotten plenty of fun out of the deeply flawed Dungeon Lords. But my expectations are staggeringly low …

Hey - nice strategy. Starting with extraordinary low expectations to avoid further disapoinments…

I will try to get some informations about DL2 from Jowood, we´re in contact with this publisher about the G4 sequel. I´ll post any news about DL2 here in this thread.

Back to DL: I think, it could have been a much better and more longliving game with a usable modkit. We asked dozens of times for something like a sdk but no answer. The data compression package system used in DL is rarely used in development, according to our informations there was no chance for ambitious modders to expand DL by themselve without proper tools. With it DL would have been a great platform for expanding it with modder generated stuff - new quests, locations and npc and a real reason for exploring this big world by hiding more dungeons and treasure places in it.

Originally Posted by zyklop
Back to DL: I think, it could have been a much better and more longliving game with a usable modkit.

My understanding is that the underlying framework was a complete mess and even minor changes required large efforts and a complete rebuild … and that it was basically laughable to even think of external mods for the game. I have no clue about the truth of that, but when you look at the changes made compared to the required time and how big the patches were relative to the game itself and number of fixes it starts to make sense.

Why can't people let something rest in peace?

I maintain that DL was an irredeemable mess that showed DWB had absolutely no idea what he was doing. I know some of you disagree but I couldn't have been more disappointed in things I thought he'd definitely get right, like the character system.

Won't touch any theoretical sequel with a barge pole and I still maintain my Dreamcatcher ban.

Amen brother; preach it!!

Originally Posted by Dhruin
I still maintain my Dreamcatcher ban.

So you still haven't bought anything of their's? Actually, looking at it is no big deal - though I have played a bunch:
- Painkiller Overdose (FPS)
- Loki (yawn)

Well, the rest I have only played because DC bought The Adventure Company. If you like adventures, you basically have only one choice.

But good on you for sticking with it!

Yes, I admit it's easy because I don't play adventures. I'll stick with it, even if they do something interesting.

I have nothing of theirs without any self imposed ban.

A ban on a small publisher doesn´t make much sense. Ca. 90% of the stuff they sell is not actually "theirs". They only move the boxes for the lead publisher on another continent or have bought a cheap license for a finished game.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Won't touch any theoretical sequel with a barge pole and I still maintain my Dreamcatcher ban.

Your loss.

I say, BRING ON THE SEQUAL! My biggest hope is that they make the MP rock-solid stable and keep it free.

I for one quite liked Dungeon Lords.

My first play was with the Collector's Edition, so I didn't have to deal with the early bugs, nor with the unpleasantness of having to buy the game a second time. That may have something to do my approval of the game.

I do think the CE is a great game, and it has earned a place on my game shelf right beside the classics.

That said, I did try some modding myself, and I agree with the assessment that the underlying framework is still a mess. I'm quite looking forward to the expansion and/or sequel in hopes that it will provide a good modding platform along with good gameplay.

Originally Posted by Arundor
I for one quite liked Dungeon Lords.

Welcome to the Watch, Arundor! Always good to have another DLer around…

Originally Posted by Arundor
My first play was with the Collector's Edition, so I didn't have to deal with the early bugs, nor with the unpleasantness of having to buy the game a second time. That may have something to do my approval of the game.

That would *absolutely* change your perspective - DW Bradley lied repeatedly, misrepresented things, and got all of us fans to play him for the victim with the evil Dreamcatcher … who was certainly not blameless in all of this.

I have said before that I enjoyed the game, but also state that objectively I enjoy it more than I should. It is full of lousy graphical standards, overly verbose text, an inadequate quest log system, awful enemy spawn system, empty towns and so on. I think that Dhruin is very right in boycotting the lot of them.

That said, I will be there to buy it, and still visit the DL forums on occasion. But I am not investing myself in it this time, that is just too much to give.

ok, dont beat me up or anything…

But i thought dungeon lords was almost good? Collectors Ed with a friend was a pretty decent oldschool dungeon crawl… with fast spawn monsters it was non stop action too…

Try and think of it as a roguelike and its way more enjoyable…. a roguelike on a crappy 3D engine.

Noone's going to beat you up but that's a different situation to a lot of us. Leaving aside my personal history (I interviewed DWB on the 'phone and he described many things that just don't exist) - have you seen the original version? Not only was it incredibly buggy (in terms of features, skills and spells not finished) but it was half empty. Literally! Towns where they had run out of time to even put furniture in the rooms.

And the improvements in the CE aren't available to me. Not as a patch - not even as an "upgrade" package or discount. I'd have to buy the whole thing again. Why would I buy a second copy of one of the worst games I've ever seen?

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Towns where they had run out of time to even put furniture in the rooms.

Reminds me of the Trayus Academy in KotoR II.

And the improvements in the CE aren't available to me. Not as a patch - not even as an "upgrade" package or discount. I'd have to buy the whole thing again. Why would I buy a second copy of one of the worst games I've ever seen?

Indeed. That point alone would make me shun a company.

Originally Posted by SirJames
ok, dont beat me up or anything…

But i thought dungeon lords was almost good? Collectors Ed with a friend was a pretty decent oldschool dungeon crawl… with fast spawn monsters it was non stop action too…

Try and think of it as a roguelike and its way more enjoyable…. a roguelike on a crappy 3D engine.

You aren't deserving of a beating. It's hard for some, but there are two distinct perspectives on this game:

1) Customer relations: there is no arguing that DWB and Dreamcatcher are deserving of all the vitriol sent their way. The lies leading up to release and the final and repulsive insult of the CE to those that had bought the original are unforgivable.

2)The game: it's tons of fun. Period. Especially multi-player, if you can get it to work for your group.

So, if you fall in the number 2 more than the number 1, no need to feel guilty. Especially if you just picked up the CE and didn't suffer through all the shit that lead up to the CE.

Enjoy!

OMG there is an expansion AND a sequel to Dungeon Lords? pls tell me this is some belated April Fools Day joke! The letdown of DL even surpassed my letdown I had from Ultima IX, and thats something! *shudders*

@elikal
Nope - it´s "bloody" real…

It´s like a miracle - most of the people i talked about this topic are deeply angry about DungeonLords, but on the other hand many of them admitted, that they had much fun playing this "crappy peace of software s…". Almost 3 years after release people still contact me because of my German walktrough and ask me for hints or simply to say "Thanks" for it. There must be something with this game, that is different from other mainstream fire_and_forget games…