|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Opinion - Bethesda: Stop Breaking your Games

Default Opinion - Bethesda: Stop Breaking your Games

December 4th, 2018, 00:19
TweakTown explains why they feel Bethesda breaks their own games and what they can do about it.

With its Creation Club updates, Bethesda broke many script extenders needed to run some of the best Fallout 4 and Skyrim: Special Edition mods (FOSE and SKSE), thereby breaking many mods in general. Anyone who uses mods will tell you it can be a nightmare at times. Mods need to be updated to ensure compatibility not only with each other, but their respective extenders and parents, and every new update seemed to break something else.

This happened many times and ultimately forced mod-makers to adapt and try to stay ahead of the curve, and gave Bethesda a nefarious bent: the publisher who used to wish goodwill upon modders was now seen as a maddeningly confused overseer unwittingly messing everything up because it wants to make more money. It felt like Bethesda was intentionally breaking its own games to push people towards buying things they had once enjoyed for free.

And this sentiment hasn't changed. If anything it's gotten worse.

[…]
Thanks Farflame!

More information.
Silver is online now

Silver

Silver's Avatar
Spaceman
RPGWatch Team

#1

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,694
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 00:31
Wait… Did we return to 2011 and the date of Skyrim release?
No?

Media, after 7 years… Better late than never I guess.
--
Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#2

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,244
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 00:52
To say like in the article than Bethesda does not make money from the mods is a bit disingenuous. I play Bethesda games since Daggerfall but I bought the last 2 Fallout only because I knew than whatever mess they would produce and call a game modders will save the day in the end.

I will not buy any other game from them if modding is not possible or only possible through the Creation club or whatever name it has nowadays. They just are not competent enough to produce a real and complex game and support it.
They actually did not do that since Morrowind.

And if they are not competent it is only because they do not give a shit. They have the money to build a real QA. They could easily embed quality development process right through the production of the game. They just do not care about it like they do not care about investing in a real writing team.

It has nothing to do with the lack of resource of a small team, it has to do with a huge company who thinks they can propose anything and people will buy it anyway.
ChatMiauleur is offline

ChatMiauleur

Watchdog

#3

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 01:21
I'm of a similar mind. I haven't purchased any of Bethesda's recent titles because of their continued efforts to get punters to pay them for the work modders do enhancing their games. I haven't installed Skyrim SE, I'm quite happy to go back to my modded vanilla Skyrim game when I get the urge. I actually fired up Oblivion the other day after seeing some old screenshots. So despite being a fanboy in the past I'm now not really interested in supporting Bethesda anymore. It's like they've lost their game studio cred and devolved into more of a faceless corporate run by MBA packing Mr Johnson's rather than dev's that are passionate about gaming if you know what I mean.
--
"You will find your death pleasant, but your fate unbearable." - Hionhurn the Executioner
KaosWarMonk is online now

KaosWarMonk

KaosWarMonk's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#4

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 03:16
I doubt I'll be making any more purchases from Bethesda, they are fairly irrelevant to me, now.
Carnifex is offline

Carnifex

SasqWatch

#5

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ormond Beach, FL.
Posts: 7,697
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 03:49
The guy who wrote this article is wearing a bright and shiny tinfoil hat.
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#6

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 4,687
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 10:23
Same as other pointed.

After Oblivion, I bought Bethesda games only because I knew community will fix their games.

Morrowind CE, Oblivion CE, Fallout 3 CE, Skyrim CE, Fallout 4 CE, Fallout 76 $200 CE!?!?! (because I wanted the helmet for my kid and canvas bag for going to gym)…

Was planning to pre-order Starfield CE and TES VI CE….

No way Jose'
Bethesda will not see any money from me anymore.

Best,
Last edited by kuki; December 4th, 2018 at 10:44.
kuki is offline

kuki

Watcher

#7

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 10:51
Bethesda is the worst thing that's happened to Bethesda's games.
Kyrer is offline

Kyrer

Kyrer's Avatar
Watchdog
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#8

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 11:59
Originally Posted by Kyrer View Post
Bethesda is the worst thing that's happened to Bethesda's games.
LOL, that's on point.
SveNitoR is offline

SveNitoR

Sentinel

#9

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 14:02
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur View Post
To say like in the article than Bethesda does not make money from the mods is a bit disingenuous. I play Bethesda games since Daggerfall but I bought the last 2 Fallout only because I knew than whatever mess they would produce and call a game modders will save the day in the end.
There is nothing disingenous.

Bethesda does not make money from the mods.
They make money off players who are so self centered (supremacist cultural background) they think every single product must be meant for them.

A modding scene is not meant to correct the flaws in a product, it is not meant to go in the opposite direction as the general direction given to the product.

Players can not admit the point and keep flocking toward products they cant bear, in hope mods will fix it up for them because they can not stand the idea an item of mass consumption was producted and not meant to meet their tastes.

Product is not meant for you, move on and do not expect mods to turn the product into what it is not: a product made for you.
That simple move is not available to players with supremacist cultural background because everything must revolve around them.
--
Backlog:0
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#10

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,267
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 15:06
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
A modding scene is not meant to correct the flaws in a product, it is not meant to go in the opposite direction as the general direction given to the product.
But it is! Actually, modders are meant to do whatever they please with your game. In fact, one of the first Quake mods was a racer.

Many modders will turn a game into whatever they would have liked the game to be in the first place. That might still not be the game I, a (practically) non-modding peasant, was hoping for, but at least it offers some choice.

I, for one, have had a lot more fun with my games as a result.
Moorkh is offline

Moorkh

Moorkh's Avatar
little backer that could
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#11

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 313
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 18:33
Perhaps Bethesda should publish a mod standards document, if they don't already?
rjshae is offline

rjshae

rjshae's Avatar
Periapt vs Paronomasia
RPGWatch Donor

#12

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,343
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)

Default 

December 4th, 2018, 18:44
Originally Posted by Moorkh View Post
But it is! Actually, modders are meant to do whatever they please with your game. In fact, one of the first Quake mods was a racer.
Modders can do whatever they are pleased with: it does not change one bit that a modding scene is not to reverse the general direction of a game.
--
Backlog:0
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#13

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,267
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

December 5th, 2018, 00:23
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
There is nothing disingenous.

Bethesda does not make money from the mods.
They make money off players who are so self centered (supremacist cultural background) they think every single product must be meant for them.

A modding scene is not meant to correct the flaws in a product, it is not meant to go in the opposite direction as the general direction given to the product.
"A modding scene is not meant".. Are you trying to tell us than there is a modding scene organized and making sense? Most of the first Mods available after a Bethesda game is published are bug fixes. So yeah, they just do that even if "they are not meant to".
Happens than Bethesda until now offered a very flexible engine and lot of assets included in what they called a "game" . Actually their own games are generally not a lot more than a huge mod. Like some kind of demo of what their engine and the modders can do with it.
ChatMiauleur is offline

ChatMiauleur

Watchdog

#14

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

December 5th, 2018, 16:48
I hope no one here doubts that the modding community has made Bethesda millions of dollars, first by finishing their mediocre games so they're actually enjoyable to play, and second by extending their lifespan by years.
screeg is offline

screeg

screeg's Avatar
floating head

#15

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,879
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)

Default 

December 5th, 2018, 18:56
Nope. Bethesda has made zero so far from mods.

They have been farming though thoroughly players who are so self centered they think any item of mass consumption must be meant to satisfy them, their tastes, who cant go pass a product when witnessing the product was not meant for them.

Players do not buy mods, they buy Bethesda's games because they can not stand that items not meant to cater for their needs exist.


Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur View Post
"A modding scene is not meant".. Are you trying to tell us than there is a modding scene organized and making sense?
Bethesda's modding scene is obviously organized and modifying a product against the general direction of its design makes no sense.
Most of the first Mods available after a Bethesda game is published are bug fixes. So yeah, they just do that even if "they are not meant to".
Bug fixing goes along with the general direction.
Happens than Bethesda until now offered a very flexible engine and lot of assets included in what they called a "game" . Actually their own games are generally not a lot more than a huge mod. Like some kind of demo of what their engine and the modders can do with it.
No, their games are usually more than a huge mod. They are the core of what is expected later to be modded. They are what players can not bear and think must be reworked from bottom to top in order to be playable.
--
Backlog:0
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#16

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,267
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

December 5th, 2018, 19:26
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
LOL, that's on point.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Bethesda's games. It's just they always seem to find a way to undo themselves: through dumbing down, poor writing, trying to introduce paid mods, etc. They achieve so much, then just go and hamstring themselves. It feels quite incongruent as a business, I suspect that is largely because the money men hold too much sway.

Originally Posted by screeg View Post
I hope no one here doubts that the modding community has made Bethesda millions of dollars, first by finishing their mediocre games so they're actually enjoyable to play, and second by extending their lifespan by years.
Not really. I think like 86% of Skyrim units sold were on consoles (unless anyone has better figures), which would kind of suggest otherwise. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if only a very small minority of the 14% of PC sales actually used any serious mods, certainly discounting fluff like high-res texture packs.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
They have been farming though thoroughly players who are so self centered they think any item of mass consumption must be meant to satisfy them, their tastes, who cant go pass a product when witnessing the product was not meant for them.
I've modded Bethesda games. I just did it because I thought it was cool, and because I enjoy dabbling when given the option to.
Kyrer is offline

Kyrer

Kyrer's Avatar
Watchdog
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#17

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

December 5th, 2018, 19:29
I'm boycotting Bethesda until they ditch that Creation Club.
Capt. Huggy Face is offline

Capt. Huggy Face

Capt. Huggy Face's Avatar
Aging Gamer
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#18

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,548
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

December 5th, 2018, 19:31
But in the end, some people bought Bethesda games because the modding community is so large and they knew they would be able to mod it to their liking some time in the future. Maybe they enjoy the concept of huge open world and the first or third person perspective but don't necessarily enjoy the execution. With mods, they can build it in any way they want. They can't always do that with other games, and Bethesda games were always best in providing that.
For example, maybe someone wants a game structured like Skyrim, but with souls-like combat. There are mods for that. Or they want Skyrim with hard core survival elements. There are mods for that. Maybe someone likes Skyrim, but finds its perk system bland. There are mods for that. Maybe someone wants to play something that is only availabe as a mod for Skyrim (Forgotten City, Moonpath to Elswyr, Moon and Star). Maybe someone likes Skyrim as it is, but after some time they become bored of it and decide to freshen things up with mods. Skyrim IS product for them. Same with other Bethesda games.

Edit: fixed some nonsene
Ivanwah is online now

Ivanwah

Sentinel

#19

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

December 5th, 2018, 20:20
Originally Posted by screeg View Post
I hope no one here doubts that the modding community has made Bethesda millions of dollars, first by finishing their mediocre games so they're actually enjoyable to play, and second by extending their lifespan by years.
Video games have surged in popularity in last ten years and modding community is a huge asset to how popular it is/can be. It's kind of like with blockbuster Hollywood movies and Bethesda gets all of it practically for free.
Every time you see one of bazillion videos of Skyrim, showcasing your game with ultra graphics/ENB, your game is being promoted, with huge influence even on console players.
This is absolutely retarded what they're doing in last few years for some easy, short term cheap gain.
I think Skyrim was a breaking point for them, where they received mainstream success and thought they could get away with everything, from that point on.
--
Rush in and die, dogs…I was a man before I was a king.
BoboTheMighty is offline

BoboTheMighty

BoboTheMighty's Avatar
SasqWatch

#20

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Posts: 3,702
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Opinion - Bethesda: Stop Breaking your Games
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:59.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch