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March 31st, 2019, 07:34
Some reviews for Outward from Farflame.

3/5 PCInvasion

My root issue with this is that Outward is really, really cool on the surface, but the combat is bad and you're going to be spending practically all of your time walking from point A to point B. Walking makes up the bulk of the experience. There are three separate quest lines that you can do, although you can only do a single one per playthrough. I only did one, but it didn't have much to it and seemed to mostly give you a guided tour of the areas. In other words, it makes you walk places.

RockPaperShotgun

I am not incredibly enthused to fight more baddies in Outward. I'm not that excited to speak to more of its cardboardy NPCs. I'm not looking forward to getting up from my chair to do some light cardio while I wait for my character to warm up by a campfire in the middle of a snowstorm, so I don't get diseased and have to trek to the nearest village for a herbal tea and sleep for a day before I'm healthy again.
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March 31st, 2019, 08:03
Perhaps it's about time the game community established the genre of "Walking Games"?

I've noticed quite a trend over the past decade of games where the inner ststems of the game seem to take a back seat to player's attention and the bulk of the chatter about a game is the extent to which the game handles its walking.

A lot of critics got really excited about firewatch, for example, but for this game the walking doesn't appear to work for them.

And this could relate to different reviewers for different categories of game, but if there was a walking category then you could have walking specialist reviewers.
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March 31st, 2019, 10:39
The game definitely needs a fast travel options. And an increase of the inventory weight limit.

Still, the game scratches an itch for me.
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March 31st, 2019, 11:30
Lol, this is in no way a walking sim. The whole idea of traveling in the game is surviving the journey, being prepared with supplies and having enough to be able to do that journey.

I'm so tired of people asking for games to be "the way they want it" and not the way the developers made them.
Your claim that this game is a walking sim (and you need fast travel) is the same with those so called game journalists wanting easy mode in dark souls games.
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March 31st, 2019, 11:41
Oh totally. If the developrs want you to walk for hours then there must be a good reason for that. I've no doubt there are modders currently devising fast travel mods as we speak just so they can play the game their way, not realising of course that by doing so they are missing the point of why the game needs you to walk for hours.

But then someone did suggest ways to invoke the survival elements into the fast travel system. Not sure how you could pick all the pretty daffodils if you did that though. And probably miss out on incidental random events.

I think walking sim is the wrong phraseology, as you're never just walking for walking's sake, but if you said "walking game" then that would just imply that walking is a key feature, the primary mechanic as it were.
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March 31st, 2019, 11:59
Yet the point can not be dismissed: exploration is about moving through space, surviving is a matter of every instant and moving is an integral part of it. Losing the capibility to move usually means the end of survival.

Players less and less tolerate to move to have access to the content they deem valuable, they desire direct access. This puts an unsolvable pressure on products like this one as moving is an essential feature.

They do not accept exploration and they reject survival.

When making a product about exploration and survival, this demand is impossible to meet.
Bettering the product is out of question as players ask for the removal of a key feature.

Reading various comments show players dismiss journeying as part of the survival experience, they consider the gameworld empty, telling they do not consider surviving the multiple journeys as filling the time they play. They desire something else.

It is atrend that was spotted years ago players rejecting the core of a product.
This leads to degradation as devs tried to meet their demand.

This does bide well for TES6.
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March 31st, 2019, 13:12
This game focus on survival, so the walking is part of it. Wanting a fast travel is the same as wanting a driving assistance on a racing sim.

On a RPG like Skyrim, Divinity games, Kingdom Come, the fast traveling makes sense. But in a survival game, not so much. Now it's up to individual choice if anyone wants to spend time on such a game. I agree with a review I read yesterday (don't remember where): the game doesn't respect your time. But then, if you're not enjoying a game, no matter the genre, it's always a waste of time.
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March 31st, 2019, 15:59
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
But then someone did suggest ways to invoke the survival elements into the fast travel system. Not sure how you could pick all the pretty daffodils if you did that though. And probably miss out on incidental random events.
Yep, you can easily devise fast travel that includes survival. It's just a different level of abstraction. You can include random events and encounters, travel "costs" (food, etc.), progression of ingame time, and whatever else you think is essential to the survival aspects. The game already does some of that when you transition from one game area to another, which requires travel rations.

What may be lost is immersion, what is gained is time to spend on more interesting aspects of the game, such as exploration of unvisited locations, solving a quest, and so on.
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March 31st, 2019, 16:31
Originally Posted by Gwendo View Post
This game focus on survival, so the walking is part of it.
For all I could gather from reviews and 'nut's hints - the game is a bloody walking simulator that doesn't respect the player's time.
Candy Crush Saga in different clothes - play for eternity to reach nowhere. The only difference is you can't buy lollipops in Outward.

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March 31st, 2019, 18:16
Any product that delivers what it is supposed to deliver respects players' time.

Originally Posted by Cacheperl View Post
Yep, you can easily devise fast travel that includes survival. It's just a different level of abstraction. You can include random events and encounters, travel "costs" (food, etc.), progression of ingame time, and whatever else you think is essential to the survival aspects. The game already does some of that when you transition from one game area to another, which requires travel rations.
No. What it does is maintaining gameplay structure continuity despite engine limitations.
What may be lost is immersion, what is gained is time to spend on more interesting aspects of the game, such as exploration of unvisited locations, solving a quest, and so on.
Saving time from survival in a product oriented toward survival.

Exploration itself requires moving, exploring toward unknown locations also demands time.
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March 31st, 2019, 21:52
I've never said all movement should be instantaneous. That's not how fast travel works in most games.
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March 31st, 2019, 22:09
Time to get the popcorn again.



Please continue for my entertainment.
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March 31st, 2019, 22:12
Yeah, joxer should be more careful. We don't need more Fanboy nerd-rage descending upon us.
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March 31st, 2019, 23:14
Fast travel with requirements is generally the best way to go. If you already visited point A to B, there's no reason to keep doing the same thing forever. A good system would use something like The Witcher 3's signposts. You can only fast travel from one specific point to another.
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March 31st, 2019, 23:25
What about only allowing fast travel back to the base or hub. This way players will think twice before using it and plan their expeditions better.

Or… Fast travel could cost one red Ruby (you can buy 10 rubies for 1 euro).
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April 1st, 2019, 01:30
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yeah, joxer should be more careful. We don't need more Fanboy nerd-rage descending upon us.
I see those dick-shrinking steroids are messing with your head again Ego Man.
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April 1st, 2019, 01:37
Originally Posted by Cacheperl View Post
Yep, you can easily devise fast travel that includes survival. It's just a different level of abstraction. You can include random events and encounters, travel "costs" (food, etc.), progression of ingame time, and whatever else you think is essential to the survival aspects. The game already does some of that when you transition from one game area to another, which requires travel rations.

What may be lost is immersion, what is gained is time to spend on more interesting aspects of the game, such as exploration of unvisited locations, solving a quest, and so on.
Immersion is the name of the game here, adding fast travel would ruin the game completely. And survival aspects are an interesting aspect of the game, at least for me, not just visiting locations (which is fun when you actually have to put effort into it) or solving a quest (which is better when they are fewer and farther between and you work toward them). I would just say at this point if you don't like the game and don't like walking/survival simulators then you should just skip it. The game was made a certain way and they're not going to change it.

And the tears of anguish from reviewers not liking it just makes the enjoyment all the more sweeter. It's nice to have a game catered to people like me for a change instead of "the masses".
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April 1st, 2019, 01:42
Originally Posted by Strafe View Post
Lol, this is in no way a walking sim. The whole idea of traveling in the game is surviving the journey, being prepared with supplies and having enough to be able to do that journey.

I'm so tired of people asking for games to be "the way they want it" and not the way the developers made them.
Your claim that this game is a walking sim (and you need fast travel) is the same with those so called game journalists wanting easy mode in dark souls games.
Well said. This game is a survival adventure simulator if anything, and it fills that niche wonderfully well.

As for respecting time, it comes down to this. Most casual gamers want to play for 15 minutes and feel super accomplished by "things" like finishing a quest, getting some new loot, solving some problem. This game, 15 minutes is spent "preparing" for the adventure to go do those things. Everything is slower, more drawn out. As you take the long time to get to your destination, you feel you earned it, when the odds were against you. When you finally do get the sweet, new loot, you feel like it's important, because it took blood, sweat and tears to do it. It's not some casual boot it up and instantly revel in glorious treasures game. It plays the long game and it plays it excellently.

If that doesn't interest you then skip the game, or try it and possibly be pleasantly surprised. I've never seen a game world, maybe except for Kenshi, where the journey is more about the journey and rewarding you with the destination. That's why fast travel wouldn't work, the game makes you put effort into it (as much effort as it to press buttons in a video game).
Last edited by TheRealFluent; April 1st, 2019 at 01:54.
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April 1st, 2019, 02:08
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
I see those dick-shrinking steroids are messing with your head again Ego Man.
Funny how I mention Fanboy nerd-rage and you show up throwing insults. I guess I hit a little too close to home there huh?
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April 1st, 2019, 02:14
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Funny how I mention Fanboy nerd-rage and you show up throwing insults. I guess I hit a little too close to home there huh?
Oh yes, very. I'm deeply traumatized, whatever shall I do?
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