Best Character Creation System

I could see a quest system that reward skill points (or the like) in different skills depending on how you solve them being interesting. Not really possible in a team based rpg though.

Guild Wars gives xp, money and depending on the quest or mission, skill points to spend/and or/attribute points to use. All the non NPC party members get the same rewards.

Maybe so, but I was thinking more on the grounds that if you use violence you get points in combat, no choice. Same for stealth and verbal. So the way you play the game has a direct effect on the growth of your character.

I'm not wedded to xp systems, some of them have exactly the same flaws Dte was railing against morrowmind for but it does raise the question of how you'd handle character development without one.

Well, I am thinking like each creature has some life energy, and when you kill one you will steal it's life energy, this collected life energy, could be sold, used to improve stats, used to heal, etc etc, I think it would give a lot more options compared to the XP system.

Except it totally relies on KILLING!! That totally precludes everything else. Why do quests, use diplomacy, whatever, if the only thing that improves your characters is killing??!!

I'm rather with Corwin on that.

Besides, the concept reminds me of the weird strategy game called "Sacrifice" by Shiny (MDK).

There you collect "souls" (if I remember correctly) by slaughtering enemy creatures, and sacrifice them on an (your own) altar.

You can then summon new creatures with this new amount of … souls ? Life-energy ?
Which is totally necessary in this game, because no new creatures -> no new armies. Plus, the enemy tries to do the same with your own troops.

In this game, altars can be destroyed by sacificing an own creature on it - which means that you win. So it is absolutely necessary to closely guard the own altar meanwhile journeying to the enemy's altar.

Except it totally relies on KILLING!!

Precisely. One of the aspects of PS:T that made it stand above other RPGs was possibility to solve almost everything without combat/killing.
Now, I don't think that going that far as PS:T is necessary, that game was one of its kind anyway, but I would certainly welcome a game which would offer peaceful solutions to some problems (and I don't necessarily mean those fetch quests here), be it by diplomacy, stealth or other manners.
Of course, hand in hand with this goes the need to be able to gain experience(or anything else serving for character development) not only for killing enemies but also for succesful solution of quests.
Really, I wouldn't try to re-invent the wheel in this case.

Originally Posted by Corwin
Except it totally relies on KILLING!! That totally precludes everything else. Why do quests, use diplomacy, whatever, if the only thing that improves your characters is killing??!!

But killing is such fun, ya darn hippie!

But killing is such fun, ya…

Well, try the newest mod for MM7 then, you'll be in celestial heaven!

…could be sold, used to improve stats, used to heal, etc etc, I think it would give a lot more options…

But this would make it too universal imho. You can heal yourself by magic, potions, plants etc, you can sell a lot of things, and also you may be able to improve stats by other means like magic (temporary), potions (temporary or forever) and so on. What I'm getting at is, that making that energy too universal might make it redundant in the end. And obtaining such energy for completing quests seems rather too complicated.

If you stick to the good old experience/levelling concept you'll have more time to think about other aspects of the game.

However, that doesn't mean that the life energy concept can't in some way work as a complement to the experience system.
For example, by training/levelling up you would be able to rise only character's skills. If you'd want to increase character's attributes, you'd need the life energy. In such case it seem quite sensible to make it obtainable only from powerful monsters/bosses. Ideally you might be able to drain the life energy from such monsters without the need to completely kill them to give player another "peaceful" alternative.

Lets not jump to conclusions Gothic mentioned he was thinking the 'life energy' could be sold so by extension it could be stored and given as a quest reward rather than necessarily just from killing creatures. To me it sounds a bit like a bluring of the normally rigid division between the XP and loot reward systems most games use. (and if you sell it can you buy it?) Just thinking about that there could be some very interesting story and game play ideas to explore in a world with an economy based on trading life energy. As a setting a world where the rich and powerful are literally taking the life from the poor and powerless makes for some pretty powerful background.

Originally Posted by V7
As a setting a world where the rich and powerful are literally taking the life from the poor and powerless makes for some pretty powerful background.

For Vampires: Yes, indeed.

But for me, this would simply be too dark. I wouldn't want to play such a setting.

Yes, this life energy could be given as reward for quests too, just like EXP could be, if done right it would make much more sense than the EXP IMHO opinion in a story perspective at least! and to kill the poor and powerless, well they will have very little life energy so it will not give much.

Yes, but if you kill thousands of them…

hehe, well I am thinking I will still have experiance but I think it is a little bit ridiculess to have exerpiance and you kill one monster, and suddenly level up and become a lot better like BOOM because you got one leve. This experiance will be used for other things, just to determine how experianced characters are and maybe for some class restrictions, etc etc, not for level up. The characters will improve their skills by using them it is the only way to make sense for me. Yes I am aware you could use all of your life energy on one character to create one UBER character,,,, but I will make sure it is not easy even if you choose this way! It will be just like playing with one char and letting him have all xp.

Yes, but if you kill thousands of them…

So blood thirsty I think I had better add bad karma or something….

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
Yes I am aware you could use all of your life energy on one character to create one UBER character

Reminds me of a story in the back of my head … was this a game's story, or a book … ? Or a movie ?

Somone or something trying to drain ALL of the life energy of the whole planet or so …
To make himself or itself (strange that it almost never is "herself") immortal … Like some kind of Lich or so …


I don't remember, but something in my memory tells me that this had once been an actual story of something.

Of course the hero had to stop this thing.

Originally Posted by dteowner
Yes, but if you kill thousands of them…

Maybe if you kill thousands of rats you start turning into one, all that rat life energy… you'd have to start thinking about what you could kill, kill another one of those goblins and you might start turning green, good time to sneak past maybe.. and what happens if you take too much life energy, to too quickly, that could get messy…

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
For Vampires: Yes, indeed.

But for me, this would simply be too dark. I wouldn't want to play such a setting.

Doens't have to be unremittingly dark; religiuos orders who gather and give life away to those in need, groups who gather to make one of themselves a champion or protector…

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness

So blood thirsty I think I had better add bad karma or something….

Ultima anyone?

Maybe have a virtue system in the same vein combined with the reputation of the later M&M games; complicate things by having multiple groups each of which hold their own views of you as well as regional reputations; and karma. What goes around, comes around (or follows you around).

Personally, I think everything should be solvable by some other means than whacking the beast with a battle axe and eating it's heart in celebration. Even the main quest; the final "battle" if you will. While bringing your axe to bear at some thing's skull is fun, it's been done in pretty much EVERY RPG out there. While I would never advocate removing what is a traditional part of the typical RPG, I also would like to see some other options besides fight and flee.

Phantasie (not as if anyone else remembers playing those!) allowed you to greet, threaten, or beg for mercy as well as fight or flee. While it was random, simplistic (it was on a C64, and only on a single dual-sided 5 1/4" floppy), and didn't give you anything for doing something other than KILL; it was better than most games out there at the time, which offered only two options; fight or run.

I remember Phantasie well. I still have 1&3 on my HD. I played 2 on my C64, but it was never released for PC. It was my first RPG, followed quickly by Bards Tale and Ultima!!