System Shock 3 - In Trouble? - RPGWatch Forums
|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » System Shock 3 - In Trouble?

Default System Shock 3 - In Trouble?

February 6th, 2020, 12:52
GameWatcher reports that Otherside Entertainment has recently laid off a number of important developers. What this means for System Shock 3 is not certain at this stage but there are rumblings from former employees.

The former Community Manager then pointed at a thread on RPGCodex, where another former OtherSide Austin employee, going by the username Kin Corn Karn, was detailing the situation behind doors.

"Warren [Spector, Studio Director] kept promising us a play test to give Boston feedback, but for whatever reason it never happened, so most of us didn't play it until it launched. We were horrified. Not only was it a financial loss for the company, the damage to our reputation was irreversible even if Austin had nothing to do with it. When the news about Starbreeze came it cast a big shadow over our hopes to find a new publisher.", they said on the OtherSide Boston-developed Underworld Ascendant which launched in a disastrous state.

"There's a lot of criticism of Warren here that I don't think is very fair. He was the most visible face of the team so I imagine it's natural to assign him blame, but if anything we needed more of his direct involvement. The team had a lot of strong personalities and he was mostly hands-off. In person he has a very gentle, kind, and humble demeanor. He had a good vision for the game, and perhaps some ambitions that were outside our reach, but I don't recall his involvement ever being corrosive.", he continued, describing Warren Spector.

They then proceed to outline a series of problems that made System Shock 3's development difficult. These included developing the title in Unity instead of Unreal Engine 4, an understaffed design team, and "milestone tunnel vision" (which they say saw the work from milestone demos being thrown away).

[…]
More information.
Silver is offline

Silver

Silver's Avatar
Spaceman
RPGWatch Team

#1

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7,938
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 13:27
I backed Underworld Ascendent … but haven’t played it at all, hearing about the crappy state I was waiting for it to get to a more playable state. Oh well - I would honestly NO SS3 than a crappy SS3.
--
-- Mike
txa1265 is offline

txa1265

txa1265's Avatar
SasqWatch
Moderator

#2

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Corning, NY USA
Posts: 14,551
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 13:39
Game developers were refugees fleeing from financial calamity forever.
mercy is offline

mercy

mercy's Avatar
SasqWatch

#3

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,553
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 13:56
Not surprised given its early troubled development.

Underworld Ascendent was also a disaster.
--
"Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everybody thinks everybody else's stinks."
Last edited by Couchpotato; February 6th, 2020 at 16:06.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
Laziest Man Alive

#4

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Great ol'Murica
Posts: 23,453
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 14:07
A cancelled SS3 would be better than a horrible SS3.
TheSHEEEP is offline

TheSHEEEP

TheSHEEEP's Avatar
Sentinel

#5

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 16:05
Methinks the situation is crystal-clear:
Warren Spector is an old-school game developer, that is, he got used to the small dev teams of old:
- where the designer, the coder and artist are pretty much equal,
- therefore creative arguments are very heated, and frequent,
- but the small team camaraderie resolves everything…
- … usually at the 11th hour.
The end result is a labor of love, albeit built from blood, sweat and tears.

Now compare this to a modern game dev company, where:
- everything is smartly over-managed (Slack! Performance trackers! Scrum sprints! Outsource! Remote work!)
- but it is actually dumbly under-managed (Crisis? What crisis?)
- with an uneven, toxic team culture ("not my job, not my responsibility, it's his fault")
- yet, the expectations are extreme ("if we won't meet these figures, we'll be f*cked")
The end result is a lifeless product, built from indifference, ignorance and confusion.

I won't say that Otherside is the horror company in the example above, but I'm pretty sure Warren Spector feels out of place at them.
Last edited by duerer; February 6th, 2020 at 16:18. Reason: F*cked up company name. Sorry.
duerer is offline

duerer

Keeper of the Watch

#6

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 16:15
Nightdive has nothing to do with this, it’s OtherSide.
Stingray is offline

Stingray

SasqWatch
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#7

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,082
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 16:18
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
Nightdive has nothing to do with this, itís OtherSide.
Sorry, my mistake, corrected.
Nightdive, I owe you a round 'o booze!
duerer is offline

duerer

Keeper of the Watch

#8

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 17:15
I completely agree with what others have said in this thread, if it appears terrible at this point, yank the plug rather than releasing something that will be mocked, and not revered. And yeah, I also supported the Underworld game and haven't yet worked up the courage to take a peek.
Carnifex is offline

Carnifex

SasqWatch

#9

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ormond Beach, FL.
Posts: 10,869
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)

Default 

February 6th, 2020, 17:32
A shame. The teaser trailer actually looked promising.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#10

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 27,565
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)

Default 

February 7th, 2020, 00:44
I backed and played Underworld Ascendent. Interestingly I had backed it so far back I forgot and payed for it in the release week. The game was so poorly designed I quickly asked for my money back. What a surprise when I was checking my Kickstarter stuff and found that I was a backer. So I have it back in my inventory.

One of the save features in the initially released game took you back to the beginning of the episode, even if you were just saving to eat some dinner. I think they fixed that but I, like a lot of you here, just don't feel like taking another peek right now.

As far as SS3, I was kinda interested if the game was going to go the route of the excellent first part of the game while on the ship or the really dumb last part of the game dealing with the bio ship thingy. . . . no biases here . . . .
Dajjer is offline

Dajjer

Dajjer's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#11

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,749
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)

Default 

February 7th, 2020, 00:52
I've actually played UA and while by no stretch of the imagination could it be called good, it did have its moments. It could have been an excellent game, but it had no clear focus, too much was broken and WAY too much was repetitive and thus boring. I'd score it 4/5 on a good day when I'm feeling generous!!
--
If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#12

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 12,357
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)

Default 

February 7th, 2020, 11:28
Pity … but after UA I have nill expectations anyway.
Andrew23 is offline

Andrew23

Andrew23's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#13

Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

February 7th, 2020, 20:27
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I've actually played UA and while by no stretch of the imagination could it be called good, it did have its moments. It could have been an excellent game, but it had no clear focus, too much was broken and WAY too much was repetitive and thus boring. I'd score it 4/5 on a good day when I'm feeling generous!!
Remind to ask you for a small loan in the future.
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#14

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 5,135
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)

Default 

February 7th, 2020, 20:28
Is this the one that was nearly cancelled and restarted over in the old engine or is that a remake of SS1?
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#15

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 5,135
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)

Default 

February 7th, 2020, 20:38
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Is this the one that was nearly cancelled and restarted over in the old engine or is that a remake of SS1?
The System Shock remake had the engine change when it switched developers. System Shock 3 is still being made with Unity. Makes no sense it should of been Unreal.
--
"Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everybody thinks everybody else's stinks."
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
Laziest Man Alive

#16

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Great ol'Murica
Posts: 23,453
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)

Default 

February 7th, 2020, 20:44
From the sound of things, SS3 isn't being developed at all right now.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#17

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 27,565
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)

Default 

February 8th, 2020, 10:43
Times change; adapt or go extinct. It is much harder to write a big budget game today than decades past; but it begs the question. Does system shock (3) have to be a big budget game ? Yes it probably needs an update in art/graphics but beyond that doesn't the general system of system shock 2 still work today and if so why does the team need to be larger if you outsource the art ?
you is offline

you

Lazy_dog
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#18

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: usa - no longer boston
Posts: 7,758
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)

Default 

February 10th, 2020, 13:21
https://www.gamezone.com/news/former…ing-worked-on/

It seems Otherside was never really able to develop proper sequel. So nothing is really lost because this outcome (or worse) was inevitable.
Andrew23 is offline

Andrew23

Andrew23's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#19

Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
rjshae is offline

rjshae

rjshae's Avatar
Periapt vs Paronomasia
RPGWatch Donor

#20

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,032
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » System Shock 3 - In Trouble?
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by DragonByte Security (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch