Kingmaker - Update 2.1.5c

Pathfinder: Kingmaker update 2.1.5c is out now - here's the list of enhancements.

More information.

In a way, it's nice to see they are still supporting the game despite the fact it got released in 2018. But on the other side, it's… "special" that there are still so many bugs to fix.

The engine bugs that are fixed are really edge cases at this point. I wouldn't call things like "Magus using Spell Combat being interrupted and losing a spell cannot follow up with a normal attack on the same turn" game-breaking.

They are using the exact same engine for Wrath of the Righteous, so it's still very much worth it for them to keep patching those edge cases, since the new game will inherit all the fixes.

Most of the issues are with the new turn-based mode, but once again, same engine, so they're taking the time to fix things as much as possible. I tried the turn-based mode myself, but the game has way too many fights for it to be a realistic option unless you want to spend 500 hours to finish it. It's nice to have for the more interesting and intense boss fights though.

I've played the Wrath alpha and it's going to be amazing. I liked it better than the BG3 alpha, though both were good. Next year will be amazing for DnD CRPGs.

Indeed. It would be normal for any game of that complexity to still have small bugs, but they've recently added turn-based mode which - I think - was not planned from the start, at least it wasn't mentioned in the kickstarter.

So they added that as a new feature (based on a mod) 2 years after release, which is awesome… but also brought a few problems along.

This needs a replay but its so long , steam says i finished it in 94h at release.

Originally Posted by porcozaur
This needs a replay but its so long , steam says i finished it in 94h at release.

If you have some saved games, you could re-spec when your character was ~level 10, if the early levels & quests seem too tedious.

Yeah, it's long for a replay…

Good points, spblue.

Hopefully, for the next game, they will get rid of the kingdom management portion. It was more annoying than anything.

I think this is one of the benefits of the way they're doing things - they're essentially improving their Pathfinder-based engine as they go along, so that each new game is more like a new campaign. Then it's relatively easy to backport the improvements to the older campaigns, as they go forward.

Originally Posted by vanedor
Good points, spblue.

Hopefully, for the next game, they will get rid of the kingdom management portion. It was more annoying than anything.

I agree,
I think they were too ambitious, and failed to do it properly (kingdom management).

I think it could be done properly, but would need to be either a completely different game, completely optional, and probably more in depth with more statistics and an almost database like part of the game, with more control and more randomness to it… Maybe it could be an addon at the end of the campaign perhaps?!

I think the kingdom management portion was ambitious, worth trying, but ultimately failed to live up to what it could be… someone else would be better to analyse what that is perhaps.

I wouldn't know as I still haven't upgraded my GOG game for TB yet. Not because I'm lazy or hate TB, because GOG patching sucks. I'm not re-downloading the game again.

Originally Posted by vanedor
Good points, spblue.

Hopefully, for the next game, they will get rid of the kingdom management portion. It was more annoying than anything.

Yes and no. There's no longer kingdom management, but instead, in Wrath of the Righteous, you play a military commander leading up a crusade against demons. This means that your party is no longer the only thing moving around on the world map. You control armies (called Legions in-game). There's a global resource management aspect where you need to manage manpower and materials for your armies. You can choose the composition of your armies (archers, footmen, paladins, etc) as well as assign leaders (who have their own XP and level system). Legion battles happen on a grid, a bit similar to the Heroes of Might & Magic style.

I'm not going to give any specifics on the implementation, since it's so early in alpha, but I think it does offer interesting opportunities for the role-playing. Allying with different factions might provide some new unit types for example. Also, since you often need to clear strongholds for your party to advance on the world map, the limited forces that you have to manage have a direct impact on what areas you're able to visit at all.

It certainly looks promising, although it's too early to tell how well it works out. It's certainly almost as ambitious as the kingdom stuff in Kingmaker.

hooked !

i am not even visiting here every day at the moment

Originally Posted by spblue
Legion battles happen on a grid, a bit similar to the Heroes of Might & Magic style.

Can your party participate in the battles?

The kingdom management doesn't take too much time and gives some RP on the side, since after all, the main character is supposed to manage the barony

It does feel a bit unfinished, I would have loved to see the changes in the villages & towns after building new stuff. Especially if there's a place to buy items, instead of having the merchant or artisant in the middle of the street like a vagrant.

And there is also the incoherency between the abilities of the advisors and their class. For example Octavia is one of three who can be regent, which requires "community", which is actually based on charisma. But Octavia is wizard and her main ability is intelligence. The other alternatives aren't better. And it's the same for other advisors as well.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
I wouldn't know as I still haven't upgraded my GOG game for TB yet. Not because I'm lazy or hate TB, because GOG patching sucks. I'm not re-downloading the game again.

I didn't have any problem on GOG, for that particular update. Or series of updates. But yeah, GOG patching is not bullet-proof, I've heard that doing a verification of the installation and trying to update again could solve some problems.

You don't like TB? Too long when there are many characters involved in combat?

Originally Posted by Redglyph
I didn't have any problem on GOG, for that particular update. Or series of updates. But yeah, GOG patching is not bullet-proof, I've heard that doing a verification of the installation and trying to update again could solve some problems.

I love GOG games but patching is a mess sometimes. I've probably had to re-download so many games instead of just downloading a small patch. It's as bad as Steam.

Not ever update is that way but the major patches usually require a re-download.

You don't like TB? Too long when there are many characters involved in combat?

No I love TB combat in other genres like 4X but not so much for RPGs. If you asked me fifteen years ago my answer might have been different. My taste changed.

So If I have to play a TB RPG I go for the easiest setting just to finish the game.

Edit: I've had to re-download PathFinder: KingMaker over six times already.

Originally Posted by Redglyph
The kingdom management doesn't take too much time and gives some RP on the side, since after all, the main character is supposed to manage the barony

It does feel a bit unfinished, I would have loved to see the changes in the villages & towns after building new stuff. Especially if there's a place to buy items, instead of having the merchant or artisant in the middle of the street like a vagrant.

For me, having to return all the time to my capital was a chore that added very little in term of fun. Yes, it gave a little more background story… but nothing that couldn't be added more seamlessly. The game is a great combat / exploration engine but the management part was more detracting than anything. As you mention, it was really unfinished but imo more importantly, it felt really superfluous.

I enjoyed the kingdom management as well. It certainly had its flaws, but it helped to add variety to a long game. I think without it, Kingmaker would have felt much more ponderous.

Originally Posted by Morrandir
Can your party participate in the battles?

Nope. There was an alpha update yesterday and I haven't had chance to try it out yet but pretty sure that isn't the case looking at update notes.

Originally Posted by vanedor
For me, having to return all the time to my capital was a chore that added very little in term of fun. Yes, it gave a little more background story… but nothing that couldn't be added more seamlessly. The game is a great combat / exploration engine but the management part was more detracting than anything. As you mention, it was really unfinished but imo more importantly, it felt really superfluous.

I discovered it wasn't necessary to return to the capital to manage the barony, you can do it from any owned part of the country, with the bottom right icon on the map.

I understand you though, in many CRPGs, RPGs or even other games, they feel the necessity of adding a meta layer, whereas the players are actually just interested by the game itself and not another "add-on" which is completely different. Usually I'm not a fan of those.

You can just adjust the difficulty to ignore the kingdom management part if you want.