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February 20th, 2021, 19:38
NeverKnowsBest asks the question why noone copies Skyrim:

An Elder Scrolls Analysis - Episode One: A New Type of RPG

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February 20th, 2021, 19:42
Haha, I had just sent you the link
Promising series!
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February 21st, 2021, 00:01
I guess the answer can be summarized by "Because unlike Soul-like games, it's very complex and expensive to produce" ?
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February 21st, 2021, 00:05
I've been asking myself that same question for years. It's definitely because the costs of making Bethesda style RPGs, and it's easier to make smaller TB crappy games.

The entire steam catalogue proves that theory.
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February 21st, 2021, 00:28
I wonder if the answer is just that they're pretty good at what they do. In the past, they've been known to have quite a small team by AAA standards.
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February 21st, 2021, 03:19
Another piece might very well be that most of the team has been with them since Morrowind and several even longer than that. You have developers that know each other and their world intimately. As someone who has lost his whole team to retirement, I know how hard it is to replace that experience. I was the youngest guy when I started and am now the oldest.
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February 21st, 2021, 08:11
I thought this video, in documentary style, was better than expected. He argues persuasively, I am now convinced Skyrim was something unique. I am almost tempted to play Dagger Fall, its aesthetics are at least comparable to retro games and its systems seem complex. Look forwards to his review of Oblivion and hope he convinces me to give Oblivion a go.
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February 21st, 2021, 11:22
It took a coherent, global, all-in approach to make it a success despite being unconventional at so many levels.

Makes me want to play it again, and I would probably do if it didn't take so much time. There was no Steam or GOG hourglass back then, but I suspect it easily ate up 200 hours.

Originally Posted by mat9813004 View Post
I thought this video, in documentary style, was better than expected. He argues persuasively, I am now convinced Skyrim was something unique. I am almost tempted to play Dagger Fall, its aesthetics are at least comparable to retro games and its systems seem complex. Look forwards to his review of Oblivion and hope he convinces me to give Oblivion a go.
His standards are usually high, even if he's not always 100% objective he clearly gives his subject enough thoughts. This is one of the best,

From what I understand, this series also seems to be very important to him, a masterpiece. Perhaps I'm reading too much between the lines
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February 21st, 2021, 14:35
Graphicaly Skyrim is clearly the best. I respect them much, especially for that hyper-amazing cave ice shader. They could have left that entire stupid shout-thing out, but it was a unique move. I still remember that family, who named their child Dovakin and they'll get Bethesda games for free. I wonder, when will the (then) baby begin to use his Dovakin powers and shout everything into magic-psi telekinetic hell, he doesn't like?
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February 21st, 2021, 17:57
Originally Posted by mat9813004 View Post
I thought this video, in documentary style, was better than expected. He argues persuasively, I am now convinced Skyrim was something unique. I am almost tempted to play Dagger Fall, its aesthetics are at least comparable to retro games and its systems seem complex. Look forwards to his review of Oblivion and hope he convinces me to give Oblivion a go.
If you want to play Daggerfall give the Unity remake a try. Thank me later.

https://www.dfworkshop.net/
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February 21st, 2021, 18:48
As a game, Skyrim just struck me as far too simplistic, which in some ways is far worse than just being easy. I've never felt the urge to replay it, and that doesn't surprise me at all. Perhaps part of my issue might have been trying to compare it to earlier games in the series, and for me it just didn't live up to any of the prior offerings.
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February 21st, 2021, 19:30
Not everyone will get this, but for those who do, you're welcome.

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February 21st, 2021, 20:12
The setting is also a bit unusual. Dwarves are different dwarves than in the usual standard fantasy cliché, for example. They are even named differently.

Sames goes for Elves etc. …

My guess is that this game series is just too alien to most "standard fantasy cliché" players.
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February 21st, 2021, 20:33
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Not everyone will get this, but for those who do, you're welcome.
I read the book (not sure how this happened), and used to skip those passages after a while
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February 21st, 2021, 21:07
Elder Scrolls - best open world formula, worst gameplay
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February 23rd, 2021, 11:18
Do you guys agree with him? That there are no "Skyrim-like" games…

What makes it Elder Scrolls by the way?
- Open world
- RPG
- Multiple races / cultures
- Shitty combat
- 1st person and optional 3rd person camera
- Not party based
- Classless leveling where the what you practice gets increased? what's this called by a better term?
- Silent protagonist
- Multiple ways to complete quests, skill checks?
- Choice and consequence
- Crafting
- Some handplaced loot, some of it's just random dynamic loot right?
- Modding
- Factions
- Main story and optional side quests. Not rail-roaded
- Able to kill (almost?) all NPCs, even main story NPCs?

Is Piranha Bytes games as close as it gets?
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February 23rd, 2021, 12:17
I would answer NeverKnowsBest that Gothic and Gothic 2 are better than Morrowind and Oblivion gameplay-wise and similar as open world games.
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February 23rd, 2021, 15:34
It all depends on what we consider gameplay.

Isn't the lore more omnipresent in Morrowind, and much more developed? I also have the feeling that it's a more complex world, very thought through. Perhaps less pleasant visually to most players.

Also, I may be wrong but IIRC there is no character creation in the Gothic series.

Oblivion and Skyrim took a different approach for the open world, they made it more mainstream (with good and bad points), and more polished, especially the combat.

So I don't really find them Skyrim-like, and even less Morrowind-like. But they must be closer than any other game I can think of, apart from Fallout 3 (for Skyrim, with a different theme of course).

Isn't Kingdom Come: Deliverance a little bit like Morrowind in its approach regarding an immersive open-world (simulation level, if you will)? I haven't played it, I suppose the lore isn't as deep, and the combat does look more technical too (no magic either, probably).
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February 23rd, 2021, 18:19
He said similar not identical.

When you go back to that time, there weren't many open-world RPGs, so comparisons were/are inevitable.

TES has the more developed background lore and obviously character creation as well. PB's games felt more alive though, and the NPC's acted more realistically. They all had great soundtracks, though I prefer Kai Rosenkranz's work.

PB has also resisted going more mainstream and streamlining their games by comparison. I hope they continue to stay the course.
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February 23rd, 2021, 18:27
PB games are the type I really enjoy, they've stayed true to themselves and not been diluted just to appeal to more folks. They are the superior industry in this comparison, and they'll have my support and monies, so long as they continue as such. The sheer amount of FUN their games offer has to be experienced to truly understand.
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