Demo released

I don't want to play the demo if the savegame can't be carried through to the full game. Does anyone know if this is possible?

I am thinking I will wait for the addon before I play Gothic 3, hopefully it puts more content into the original world like NOTR did for G2.

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Funny how most of these criticisms are leveled at Bethesda like its a national pastime and yet PB get a free pass???

What's wrong with that - it's like 'Weasel Stomping Day' from Weird Al's latest …

the story is always most important, so given what they had created and lead up to how were they suppose to create a small mainland? another orc palisade would have been rediculous by the way.

anyone who complains needs to offer solutions otherwise they are just a noisy teapot that needs to be lifted up and taken away.

i think gorath is right in now they can create smaller addons that allow them to add more depth, which those with complaints 'could' enjoy more. but not if they don't play gothic 3 first.

just to note i now have more posts than i had in the over 5 years i was at rpgdot. this is the reason i avoided posting much, as i deplore arguing and the even more futile online debating. i simply enjoying reading about gothic and such and am somewhat shocked to have seen more negative energy, besides normal 'trolling', here than i did my entire time at rpgdot. i am sorry if i ever upset anyone, if so lets be friends…its more enjoyable

Curious, I understand your anger. To place the ideas behind the general negative sentiment into your analogy though: G3 is the palace with all the holes whereas G2 and G1 are the gold plated super palaces of ultimate decadence and excess that put the collective extravagance of Hollywood to shame by a factor of 10. We were promised a gold-plated palace but purchased one with holes instead

There is no lack of understanding here, when the developers come out and say that they are not even 100% satisfied with the game it becomes hard to ignore the fact that something is missing.

I think PB is great; it takes a lot of balls to come out and publicly apologize for a poor product. But PB was not the only organization that had their hands on this project. Major decisions for such a project are made by many organizations with various unaligned goals in mind. In addition, these decisions are made within the confines of budgeted financial and temporal limitations. So first, focusing on the developer alone places far too much responsibility on them. Second, attempting to accomplish more than is feasible within a known set of constraints will result in a poor product. As such, I think it is safe to say that this screw up was not entirely PB's fault, and the poor quality is not due to a lack of talent but to poor decision making instead.

My complaints about the game are not attempts to deprive you of your enjoyment. Instead they are requests that we all get something a little better next time so everyone can enjoy it.

i agree with you lost number as you bring up many good points, but i think poor is a little harsh. i do appreciate your level of understanding as well. they took a much larger leap in technology though as compared to 1 and 2, so doing what they hoped for may not have been realistic this time around. hopefully now we can see the next 5 years spent on repairing the palace and making it even more grand. besides they needed to make some mistakes so we don't think they are immortal gods right?

Perhaps poor was too hard, I mean I did play it for nearly 80 hours. I really do have high hopes for the expansion packs, which by Gorath's estimates should be available in about a year. Before that though, I am just waiting for a few more patches to be released before I dive in again. I do plan on getting an enjoyable return on this investment. As far as learning lessons goes it is obvious that PB has taken much from this experience, I just wonder how the other parties involved took it. Does anyone know what PB has on their horizon after G3 sets in the west?

I'm not a fan of senseless fighting either, that is why I come to this forum. An impassioned exchange of views is not wasteful if an understanding reached. With that said I think I will soon be ready to lay my grievances to rest and finally enjoy the game as best I can, just after a few more patches are released…

You know I call it like I see it - positive or negative. Feel free to disagree - its all friendly discussion - but don't expect me to temper my comments while you make vague accusations of trolling as you hide behind a pretense of politic friendliness. Afterall, the forums are here to discuss issues just like these - not just to pander to blind fan loyalty.

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
You know I call it like I see it - positive or negative. Feel free to disagree - its all friendly discussion - but don't expect me to temper my comments while you make vague accusations of trolling as you hide behind a pretense of politic friendliness. Afterall, the forums are here to discuss issues just like these - not just to pander to blind fan loyalty.

That's right - if you disagree let him know … check the helmet, he's ready for imcoming missles!

Speaking of being positive - look at all the backlash I get for liking PoR2? See? It gets me nowhere

I'm probably going to feel stupid for asking this, but who's talking to who here?

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Speaking of being positive - look at all the backlash I get for liking PoR2? See? It gets me nowhere

I didn't think you got backlash … it was just that very few people could believe you liked that - I got that for my (relatively speaking) positive review (6/10) of Dungeon Lords …

if you meant me i was reffering to people like viking beserker, not you or anyone else. and i make no apologies for 'trying' to be a pacifist, with the obvious exclusion of gaming…but i 'try' there as well.
im not really a fan of anything, but when theres something i enjoy in life i try to unravel its beauty and complexity as well as the thoughts of its makers. to this i put faith and loyality in yes. but these things/people in life are few for me and its good to have something to believe in…at least bon jovi(who i have no loyality or faith in) agrees with me

Let's get back on topic guys.

About the demo… I know that you can't die during the opening battle, but are there other places where you're supposed to be immortal? I was just in the caves near the rebel camp fighting some lizards and they didn't seem to be able to kill me for some reason. A bug perhaps?

Also, how did Gorn know where the rebel camp was?

your right jdr13, i was going to suggest maybe we should splinter this thread into one into the off-topic forum for further discussion.
i haven't played the demo but maybe since it is one of the first beast quests you can get maybe they made 'easier' so if you go straight to the rebel camp

…from following gorn. its strange though for sure. i do recall in this and previous gothics at least once being hit by a hostile and not dying. i think if you get hit for the exact number of life points you have left it knocks you unconscious. the odds of this occurring though are quite small. possibly this is what happened though?

Originally Posted by Ragnar
Well…from what I have been reading, it’s a lot more than just “some people”. I would say “most people”.

Really, this is an exaggeration. I've read both tons of people that are saying that they love the game and people that say they hate it. The same was true for Oblivion, which release I followed as closely as Gothic 3's. I'm not sure if this is a trend or if it's always been this way, but there will be a lot of people screaming about how they hate stuff in every case. I've already compared it to the Lord of the Rings movies and puritists that decried the transition from the book.

There really aren't any hard numbers on what percentages "hate" the game versus the ones that "love" the game. The opinions are skewed in any case; those that are "disgusted" by it and "love it to bits" are both extreme in their views. Most people just want to try a nice game and have an average opinion of it. Just like any other game.

If a game is poorly designed or rushed to market…especially when comparing it to its predecessors…who is at fault? Certainly Not the consumers!! The only power a consumer has over a product…is with the all mighty dollar. If a product is bad and everyone goes out and buys it anyway…then what incentive is there for the producers of said product, to make a better product.

Such a capitalist remark. Trust the Americans to come forward with that one! Me, I bought it because I wanted the game. I took a gamble, but it was a present for myself. I don't think of "my dollars" as a reward for the developers or publishers, but because I wanted to buy myself something nice. And I got it, too. While not flawless, it did provide me with my money's worth-- even more so than Oblivion, which I put down after some 15 hours of play. I do intend to pick that one up, though.

On the other hand, of course I hope that the developers and publishers have the best of intentions and they same love of the Gothic franchise as I and many others do. I have no reason to believe that all they care about is money. Of course, money is always an object when you need to invest tons of it in such a huge project.

If the system is not what people expect or of poor design…again comparing it to its predecessors…then what good is it. Quantity does not make up for poor quality.

I read many people's opinions about the combat system. It seems so-so to a lot of them, mostly because of some balance problems or bugs, but the basics seem to be all right. The thing is, most people hated the combat of the previous Gothics; it's one of the reason that it didn't do that well in the grand scheme of things. Of course, I loved it to death as did many other fans, but one of the biggest complaints by most people was the controls and the combat system. So what were they to do? Cater to the minority? The new system surely isn't as mainstream as most new games and while it may have its flaws, I do believe that it has much more potential than most people give it credit for.

I have done a lot of reading on peoples comments and views of G3 and the masses are not happy.

Again, I've read both sides of the coin. When Oblivion came out, their forums were flooded with people that complained about various aspects of the game. Even so, it became a huge hit. So who are these masses that are not happy about anything? There are many people that do enjoy it, but who are the most vocal? You should take a look at some of the MMORPG communities.

i hardly think the sword fighting in gothic 1 and 2 is what made the game.

Maybe in and of itself…no. But it certainly played a major role. So much so that it sparked major discussions in the forum in one form or another.

Mostly because it was a controversial combat system. It was a huge learning curve and even then, many people never got to like it. Only a smart portion, relatively, of the fans grew to like it. Even a lot of the Gothic fans admit they didn't like the controls or combat system. I read a lot of people's opinions that said they liked the game a lot, if not for the crappy combat. To me, it was perfect, especially when mapped to a gamepad, but that doesn't mean most people liked the way it worked.

If you read “most” of the threads concerning this issue, then you would not be making this statement.

Again I will say that "most" is not accurate. From what I've read, it's about 50/50. As controversial as the original games.

Originally Posted by curious
…from following gorn. its strange though for sure. i do recall in this and previous gothics at least once being hit by a hostile and not dying. i think if you get hit for the exact number of life points you have left it knocks you unconscious. the odds of this occurring though are quite small. possibly this is what happened though?

No… a lizard was knocking me down multiple times and I should have been dead but I just kept getting back up. My life gauge was empty when I got knocked down, but after I got up it would replenish itself by a small amount.

I know what you mean though about getting hit for the exact amount of life points you have. That happened to me a few times in Gothic 1&2.

Another question

Doesn't it seem odd how weak the npc's are in this game compared to the previous Gothic games?

For instance… in the caves near the rebel camp I got a Goblin to follow me to the edge of the camp. He was immediately attacked by at least 6 rebels. there were 3 or 4 fighers bashing him as well as a couple of archers firing arrows at the same time. Despite the overwelming odds, that Goblin lasted for almost a full minute before they finally brought him down.
I personally think this is a bug. There's no way the npc's should be that weak.

actually i think this is something to do with scaling. imagine all npcs/monsters with a set scale, that is low. now if scaling is only applied to you, so that it does more damage to you and depending on your stats you to it, imagine taking away the scale factor when 2 npcs are fighting each other. they will do less damage as there stats are not 'pumped' up to face you.

this was actually my biggest worry going into gothic 3 was the issue of scaling. it was one of the many things about oblivion i disliked, along with continous spawning which i hate in every game that has it (save system shock 2). but i was amazed how i barely noticed it at all in gothic 3 and both character types i have created have not been overwhelmed. i imagine if there was no scaling i would have got slaughter when i opted to 'do' nordmar before varant in my first game as a warrior hunter.

I understand what you're saying but it shouldn't take 5-6 rebel fighters more than a few seconds to kill a single goblin.

btw, System Shock 2 is one of my all time favorite games. Glad to see you enjoyed it.