Dragon Age - Might Not Catch with Console Gamers

Originally Posted by skavenhorde
I'm sorry but any FF or JRPG isn't my definition of a fun RPG. Give me slow, methodic, strategic combat any day. The slower the better. Hell, let's make it so slow that it's turn-based.

FF is turn-based.

Originally Posted by skavenhorde
What is so superior about liking a different kind of game than the masses like? You go have your fun and I'll play what I like. If that is superior then sign me up for the snob society.

I'm sure Estel was referring to certain other poster(s) that were name-calling certain groups of people and not people simply enjoying a different kind of game.

BG wouldn't translate well onto a console. Could you imagine trying to play that game with a gamepad?

I could, actually. I really don't see why this should be impossible. There have been excellent GUI innovations for certain genres in console games. Sometimes it's hit and miss, but then again: certain genres have done well on PC for a much longer time, so they had more time to mature in this way. I could conceivably see ways to make a complex RPG work well with a gamepad.

I'm sorry but any FF or JRPG isn't my definition of a fun RPG. Give me slow, methodic, strategic combat any day. The slower the better. Hell, let's make it so slow that it's turn-based. I think that is why we are considered a niche genre, not everyone and their mother likes our games.

Ironically, most jRPGs are turn-based. Of course, I know what you mean, but there have been fairly deep jRPGs with excellent character progression options, multiple paths, choices and interesting combat. So it just depends.

Originally Posted by Avantenor
Actually, Interplay did start a PS one portation of Baldur's Gate but stopped it after some time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk31Z3jyuHI

Thanks for that. I didn't know this!

Although I prefer CRPGs by far, I would never be naive enough to think there aren't great console RPGs as well.

I really enjoyed the earlier FF games up until FF 8, which is when that series took a turn for the worse imo. I've heard a lot of good things about FF XII though, and I plan on playing through it when I can find the time. The Dragon Quest series is very good as well.

As far as Baldur's Gate on a console goes, if they can successfully port RTS games like Command and Conquer to the Xbox, then I'm sure they could do games like BG as well. They would probably decrease the difficulty level a notch.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Good for us that it appears Dragon Age isn't to his taste.

The likelihood that the game will be altered to suit him, or people with tastes similar to his, is very real, however.

FF is "hardcore"? Really? Not since 7. I mean, unless you think brainless grinding is hardcore, in which case MMOs must be the very epitome of hardcore CRPGness. Super!

Originally Posted by Thaurin
I could, actually. I really don't see why this should be impossible. There have been excellent GUI innovations for certain genres in console games. Sometimes it's hit and miss, but then again: certain genres have done well on PC for a much longer time, so they had more time to mature in this way. I could conceivably see ways to make a complex RPG work well with a gamepad.

Cool, I wasn't being cynnical when I said, hey go for it, if it's possible then why not. Give the consolies a taste of what we keep talking about with our "hardcore" games and maybe we'll have a fighting chance that some decent RPGs can be made. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the only games I know of right now that do huge amounts of sales in our genre. It would be nice if some of these well developed and meaningful games coud get some love too and yes I'm very impressed with what Dragon Age seems to be. I'm looking foreward to many wasted hours enjoying the awsomeness of it

Originally Posted by Thaurin
Ironically, most jRPGs are turn-based. Of course, I know what you mean, but there have been fairly deep jRPGs with excellent character progression options, multiple paths, choices and interesting combat. So it just depends.

I've played FF7 and 8 plus Septerra Core and a few others. What they think is turnbased and what I think is are two totally different things They have sorta a quasi-pause and play type of turnbased. Not my cup of tea.

Plus, I'm sorry but 1 or 2 minute magic scenes EVERYTIME I cast the spell is TOO much even for me. Yes, it is really pretty, but isn't there a way I can skip past the 100th waterchick spell that lasts forever? That's my main gripe with JRPG, that and their huge eyes. I have nightmares about those eyes Basically if they weird them down a few knotches and make it possible so I can skip those magic summoning cards animations, then they might be tollerable for me at least.

As for Baldur's Gate on the PS, that would of been great for them if they could of pulled it off, but I don't see how could they. But hey, I'm no expert and if they found an uncumbersome way of controlling all your characters in a fight or just even moving around then that would be pretty cool to see.

@Dhruin I wasn't demonizing him, I was giving him such much needed advice. I've had to put my bong down to read the manual before I could figure a game out Don't try playing Dominions 3 with a bong in your hand, it just doesn't work But that is all moot, I guess he didn't even have a manual, but I''m sure it came with some sort of operating manual.

Still I loved his "proper tutorial" comment. Gives me a little chuckle everytime I think about it.

I'll join the crowd pleading that DA not be "consolized". Please, God. Pretty please. Cherry, sugar, sprinkles, whipped-cream, hot fudge, whatever the hell else you want on top.

EA will not accept anything less (more?) than a totally playable and appealing console title for the console crowd.

There's no doubt WHATSOEVER in my mind that they will change the console version and adapt it to the perceived audience. What I'm curious about, is if this will hurt the PC version - and I'm pretty sure it will. There's no way they're going to be developing essentially two games - so they're going to have to find some kind of compromise, which can't result in a "pure" PC game.

Bioware's track record of PC/console versions being markedly different isn't exactly sterling in any case. JE on XBox and on PC are more or less identical; KotOR PC has only a slightly different UI; ME PC has exactly the garbage inventory the 360 version has. Homogenization for all--long live laziness and death to effort!

Originally Posted by Essaliad
Bioware's track record of PC/console versions being markedly different isn't exactly sterling in any case. JE on XBox and on PC are more or less identical; KotOR PC has only a slightly different UI; ME PC has exactly the garbage inventory the 360 version has. Homogenization for all--long live laziness and death to effort!

Only thing is this time they made it (before they sold out) for the PC only. It would be sorta ludicrious to fix it so that it is playable on a console and then use that version for the PC as well. They already have one for the PC. One for them, one for us. A win win if you ask me.

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Here, I'll try to reassure you with a note about how it's kinda hardcore.

RPGWatch: We do not believe you. It is simshipping with a console.

Me: Um, okay. But it's not being made for the con--

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Here's an explanation of the difference in design philosophies and goals between Mass Effect and Dragon Age, and why you won't see Dragon Age losing the hardcore RPG elements that Mass Effect lost.

RPGWatch: We do not believe you. You removed multiplayer.

Me: Why the hell would that matt--

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Here's some MTV thing where a console gamer says that it's too old-school and hardcore and tactical for him.

RPGWatch: We do not believe you. They will dumb it down for the console crowd.

Me: Wait. I mean, I can see us simplifying the console game for storage and memory reasons, and to fit with the control scheme, but do you honestly think we're going to dumb down the PC version of the game?

RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Me: Okay, then. I'm so glad I engaged.

This is what happens when you sell out

Actions speak louder than words, and if you want us to believe Dragon Age is truly a title with creative integrity - then you'll have to let the game speak for itself.

No reason to keep trying to convince us when the game itself can accomplish that much more efficiently.

On the other hand, can't you see how unrealistic it seems that EA will accept a truly hardcore title released for a console? That will mean a TON of lost sales and I have a REALLY hard time seeing them accept that.

Don't lump us all into some hive mentality, please Patrick.

@DA, so you can keep calling Patrick a sellout but the only argument he can make is to release the game? Give me a break. These BioWare related threads are getting tedious.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Don't lump us all into some hive mentality, please Patrick.

@DA, so you can keep calling Patrick a sellout but the only argument he can make is to release the game? Give me a break. These BioWare related threads are getting tedious.

@Dhruin: Apologies. I will try not to let the loudest voices affect my perception of everyone here.

Its been so long since a AAA title has been released for the PC gamer that its hard to have faith. I'm not saying its impossible, but I'm not going to assume that Bioware/EA will release such a game.

Originally Posted by PatrickWeekes
RPGWatch: Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game.

Please do not generalise across all of RPGWatch. It is not fair to some people, like me. I know you (by your posts) for a reasonable person, though, so I don't think you meant it in that way. However, I do believe you're (rightly so) taking some of the comments personally. I just hope you can ignore the tone of some posters and pick up some of the (hopefully) valid criticisms that perhaps is there among the garbage and go with that.

It just happens to be that some gamers have removed themselves so far from reality that it is impossible for them to see how reality works.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Don't lump us all into some hive mentality, please Patrick.

@DA, so you can keep calling Patrick a sellout but the only argument he can make is to release the game? Give me a break. These BioWare related threads are getting tedious.

I also think so. Isn't one thread enough? Do you have to repeat the same far-fetched "arguments" over and over again?

Problem is, we have had so many games dumbed down for console in the past that it's normal that many are very suspicious about what's coming…

Personally, I remain hopeful.

Originally Posted by Essaliad
Bioware's track record of PC/console versions being markedly different isn't exactly sterling in any case. JE on XBox and on PC are more or less identical; KotOR PC has only a slightly different UI; ME PC has exactly the garbage inventory the 360 version has. Homogenization for all--long live laziness and death to effort!

All 3 of those were developed with the console in mind first. DAO will be the first one developed for pc and the ported to the console.

Personally I trust BW to deliver a very very good pc rpg.

Originally Posted by PatrickWeekes
@Dhruin: Apologies. I will try not to let the loudest voices affect my perception of everyone here.

Hey Patrick, I heard that "Dragon Age will be a dumbed-down console game" .,.. is that true?



Personally I can't wait!

Originally Posted by Dhruin
These BioWare related threads are getting tedious.

Bioware and tedios should never be in the same sentence The "OMG it isn't HC enough" opions are laughable and silly though. Tedious? ehh, depends if you take them seriously or not.

@Patrick Dude, I just want to thank you. Without your insight on this matter, I wouldn't be as excited about this game. As a matter of fact I probably would think that EA is up to their ol' tricks, but instead I have a little hope that they might of learned from their past mistakes and are taking our genre a little more seriously. So anyways thanks for the insight and helping make a really cool game. hope you can pull off the console version

Now can we get back to being happy that the MTV dude was confounded with the game?