Top 10 CRPGs of all time

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
how come Gothic 2 and Gothic 3 is on your list but not Gothic ????

I never succeed finish Gothic 1 it seemed pale after to have play Gothic 2 with NOTR, but well at least it worth more than Gothic 3.

oooh I love these things! I always feel like what I put in these "top X list" will be put in stone and made fact lol.

1. Planescape: Torment. When I first played this game, I actually didn't like it. It had weird art and the setting was different from my crush at the time: Baldur's Gate. But I played through it again and again and I have to say it: this is it folks, this is about as good of a story and game as you'll get. The creativity, the imagination. Even the names of the little characters! Yellow-fingers, Ashmantle, Marrow-friend. I played this game so much I was hungry for more, I used to watch the trailer for the game that shipped with BG:TotSC with all those missing scenes. I often wonder what that game would have been like if given more time and was allowed to have perhaps one more CD.

2. Ultima 7. It seems like they still haven't made a game this detailed, this full of life. For God's sake you can bake bread!

3. Fallout 1 and 2. You can shoot people in the groin with a sawed off shotgun. An interesting story, music, and art all it's own make this one of my faves.

4. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. Great stories and great dialogue. I'd say only Torment has better dialogue.

5. Angband. I can't even remember which version it was and sadly I've lost it, but I remember playing this game for so long… it was always so entertaining seeing what new enemies would appear. I swear this game has every kind of hound ever imagined. Inertia hounds… great stuff.

6. Icewind Dale 1 and 2.

7. Ultima 8. I know I know, but there was something about this game, the style, the art. I don't know, but I just loved it. It had this empty feel to it that the developers probably didn't mean to have, but it made you feel alone and I sort of liked that. Every character in the game seems so hostile.

8. Arcanum. I loved the stat system in this game. Isn't that the backbone of RPGs?

9. Jagged Alliance 2. Maybe it's more of a strategy game, but I definitely felt the RPG in it. I've spent many an hour with this game especially after installing that mod that adds like every gun ever made to it.

10. Blade of Darkness. Not really an RPG, but I had to include this since I've always wanted RPGs to have combat like this game. It was like a fighting game with special moves and all, but in first-person. The game had horrible sales, but I still love it. I thought The Witcher was going to be like this game, but was very disappointed.

Originally Posted by JDR13
KotOR would definitely rank high in my top ten list……….of overrated games.

I second that.

And conversely, I would say KOTOR II is vastly underrated. It improved on KOTOR in many areas - if not for the rush job in development and the fact that combat was still a cakewalk, it would have been amazing.

I would probably add the first Baldur's Gate to that list of "overrated" as well.

Originally Posted by Relayer
I would probably add the first Baldur's Gate to that list of "overrated" as well.

Whoa there….

Thou speaketh heresy.

7. Ultima 8. I know I know, but there was something about this game, the style, the art. I don't know, but I just loved it. It had this empty feel to it that the developers probably didn't mean to have, but it made you feel alone and I sort of liked that. Every character in the game seems so hostile.

It was great if not for all the bugs, and some other problems it could have been a real classic. I mean just that opening scene wow such atmosphere!

2. Ultima 7. It seems like they still haven't made a game this detailed, this full of life. For God's sake you can bake bread!

and today the NPC schedule's and the living breathing world is not surpassed.

I would probably add the first Baldur's Gate to that list of "overrated" as well.

agreed.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Whoa there….

Thou speaketh heresy.

At the time it was an amazing game, yes - considering what was available. And considering the leap DnD made from those SSI gold box games.

But it hasn't held up well over time.

It's still a great game but Baldur's Gate II was so much better as to make it unnecessary to even bother with BG1 if you've never played the series.

Icewind Dale was more enjoyable to me than BG.

Originally Posted by Relayer
Icewind Dale was more enjoyable to me than BG.

Wooo that is weird. And for BG2 vs BG1, the mood and story writing is much better in BG1. If NPC in party get more complexity in BG2, they are more attaching in BG1. BG2 SoA suffered of its fights design much more than BG1 did. BG1 had an unbalance too much in favor of long range but SoA was terrible in comparison, the first rounds took a too high importance, generating either too much random in results either boring hyper pausing at beginning of fights to manage the first two rounds (or three sometimes).

It's more BG2 SoA which is overrated.

Originally Posted by Relayer
But it hasn't held up well over time.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I know many people who didn't play it until years later(even recently) and loved it. BG1 ranks up there with System Shock as one of those timeless classics imo.

Originally Posted by Relayer
It's still a great game but Baldur's Gate II was so much better as to make it unnecessary to even bother with BG1 if you've never played the series.

That's just plain nonsense. Sure, you don't HAVE to play BG1, but it certainly adds to the overall experience if you play them in order.

Originally Posted by Relayer
Icewind Dale was more enjoyable to me than BG.

Agreed. I played BG after PS:T, so that may have colored my views somewhat unjustly, but BG was to me stale and boring, with too many empty areas. I've replayed IE games at least a few times, but BG was an exception: when I tried to start another game, I couldn't even motivate myself out of Candlekeep. IWD has much better atmosphere, areas, and combat.

Originally Posted by Essaliad
Agreed. I played BG after PS:T, so that may have colored my views somewhat unjustly, but BG was to me stale and boring, with too many empty areas. I've replayed IE games at least a few times, but BG was an exception: when I tried to start another game, I couldn't even motivate myself out of Candlekeep.

LOL, Candlekeep is just a small tutorial I play it in 10mn…. Woo too long for the young generations, 10mn is an eternity!

Empty area? Please quote them it's you never play the game more than Candlekeep. I played BG less than one year ago and hate empty area, I wonder where you saw any.

Originally Posted by JDR13
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I know many people who didn't play it until years later(even recently) and loved it. BG1 ranks up there with System Shock as one of those timeless classics imo.

<snip>

That's just plain nonsense. Sure, you don't HAVE to play BG1, but it certainly adds to the overall experience if you play them in order.

I played them out of order, and think BG2 is better … but I still love BG1, and restarted again this fall - now need to find time to finish this round …

Originally Posted by Dasale
LOL, Candlekeep is just a small tutorial I play it in 10mn…. Woo too long for the young generations, 10mn is an eternity!

No. I meant that I could not motivate myself out of Candlekeep. To use simple words: the game is dull. Flat. Tedious. Candlekeep in particular is a crappy starter area that offers very little in terms of interest, intrigue, excitement, glimpses of good writing or a good story, anything resembling good characterization. In short, it bored me so thoroughly I could not play the game more than once, and on my attempt to replay I could not make myself go through that borefest again.

Is that clearer? You seem to have immense reading comprehension problems. That or the Goggles of Undeserved Condescension +4 you're wearing are clouding your vision.

Empty area? Please quote them it's you never play the game more than Candlekeep. I played BG less than one year ago and hate empty area, I wonder where you saw any.

Uh… I said that I "tried to start another game." It implies (and I am sorry if implications are too difficult for you) I have finished the game at least once. It entails I have, indeed, ventured beyond Candlekeep and put up with the mindless treks through boring grassy areas with very little to them but the occasional flavor NPCs and gibberlings. Let's see. All the nameless areas south/north of named areas. Hell, most of the named areas that are not towns or Baldur's Gate itself. Oh sure, you'll come across a pack of kobolds or whatever, or maybe an NPC with a few lines of dialogue, but that's not content. That's pseudo-content. Exploration is worthless if all there is to see is a lot of grass and pointless, meaningless encounters.

I'm sorry you can't understand that someone might find a game you adore tiresome. It's really not my fault that, after PS:T, Baldur's Gate is little more than an outdated parcel of absolute, utter banality. BG2 was, of course, something else.

Originally Posted by JDR13
That's just plain nonsense. Sure, you don't HAVE to play BG1, but it certainly adds to the overall experience if you play them in order.

You're certainly entitled to YOUR opinion as well.

But the game feels tedious at times (I could have done without running through screens and screens of forest), the pacing is a bit slow, interface is a little clunky and the map layout/navigation at the Baldur's Gate city sucked.

Again, it's NOT a bad game, I loved it at the time of release just that every RELATED release after really improved upon it.

It's not like Elder Scrolls where as "modern" as Oblivion is it still compares poorly to the older ES games. In BG's case, BG II did everything BG did but so much better.

I still think BG has a place among the classics, it IS a very important landmark game.
And yes, I guess if you call yourself an RPGer you really should play it. But I still think you only need to play BG II to "get it".

Originally Posted by Essaliad
…put up with the mindless treks through boring grassy areas with very little to them but the occasional flavor NPCs and gibberlings.

Oh sure, you'll come across a pack of kobolds or whatever, or maybe an NPC with a few lines of dialogue, but that's not content. That's pseudo-content. Exploration is worthless if all there is to see is a lot of grass and pointless, meaningless encounters.

That's basically it right there.

There will always be the minority….

Yes, and the majority is always right, of course--

Oh wait.

I'm listening to Daft Punk I'm sure others don't like this music.. I do.

Why personal abstraction is difficult to comprehend in regards to games enjoyment is something that alludes. Whether you like BG, IWD, PS:T, BG2 most is down to personal preference of certain aspects of the said games. People just aren't all into the same shit and can be partial to certain designs, gameplay, games etc etc.

I quote what you wrote Essaliad:

Originally Posted by Essaliad
…but BG was to me stale and boring, with too many empty areas.

Is what you wrote is clear for You? I wonder.

So question:
Where those numerous empty area? Is that question enough clear for you?

Originally Posted by Essaliad
when I tried to start another game, I couldn't even motivate myself out of Candlekeep.

Yes your patience is limited to 10mn, the time to play this area when you have already play it. That's all and that's pitiful.

Now whine as you want, I don't care debate with i…ts.

Originally Posted by woges
I'm listening to Daft Punk I'm sure others don't like this music.. I do.

Why personal abstraction is difficult to comprehend in regards to games enjoyment is something that alludes. Whether you like BG, IWD, PS:T, BG2 most is down to personal preference of certain aspects of the said games. People just aren't all into the same shit and can be partial to certain designs, gameplay, games etc etc.

Definitely true, but when someone mention a game has plenty empty area, it should have some argument to explains such objective points.

Secondly when someone quote Candlekeep then get bored during this area which just a beginning tutorial, then why even start again the game? That's so plain stupid if you expect a game is boring you'll find boring so don't play it.

Originally Posted by Essaliad
Yes, and the majority is always right, of course--

Oh wait.

Yes, that is exactly what I said.

Oh wait….