The Very First Try

Originally Posted by yeberion
That is still inconsistent.. The orcs at Khoronis arrived on boats after the barrier fell and fenced off the swamp area.. According to Thorus they rounded up everyone at Khoronis and brought them to Myrtana, after which he adopted their culture as his own, so they obviously are the same group of orcs.

Perhaps, but my quote was taken directly from the Gothic 3 manual. Why would Orcs arriving at Khorinis *after* the fall of the barrier have to be the same ones?

I wouldnt say G3 is as good as the predecessors either (not by a long shot), but I dont think the story is all that inconsistent except for the orcish language prowess. And the "pirates stole our ship" copout is lame, but that is par for the course for sequels clearing your inventory in the beginning…

NPC depth is not comparable to the predecessors and they might as well have been a different series in that regard

Originally Posted by yeberion
The other thing is the kings claim to have purposly sent the hero to the barrier, but in G2 the collapse of the barrier is what shifted the war towards the orcs side, when you also consider that in G3 you can decide to help the orcs and destroy the humans this also seems like a rather sloppy plotline.

I never had any problem rationalising that. The king is a politician and is smooching for the strongest warrior in the world. Of course he is lying/talking crap

There are other numerous little things that bug me, because to me a story makes a game and G3 broke the entire story of the series. Lee never bothers following up his quest to find the king, instead he ends up in Nordmar fighting orcs?

But he does, only later in the game

Cor Angar who says hes tired of fighting becomes an arena master?

Agree, this one doesnt make much sense.

Xardas, who in G2 specifically makes a tower to bring you back with decides to hide far away from you?

Given the ending of G2 I think it makes some sense that Xardas doesnt want to meet up with the hero right away

If Thorus got rounded up by the orcs where did the rest of the characters from Khoronis go?

Probably into nameless slavery as relative nobodies, but I agree this is a cop-out.

The guild system in G3 is retarded as well, in G1 and G2 you earn a sense of status from your guild, you're either a feared mercenary or a respected mage etc. In G3 I'm just a random dude, helping the rebels for a while then helping the orcs then deciding who I want to screw over in the end.

Yep, storywise it would have made sense to have a little more of mutual exclusiveness about the factions…

Personally I would have liked to see the group stay together, set up a camp at the ship (instead of "pirates" quickly stealing it somehow) and work together to either take out revenge on the king for throwing them behind the barrier, or get back at xardas for using our hero in G2..

Not so sure about the group staying together, they have conflicting personal goals now that they've reached Myrtana. Milten, Lee, and Diego for instance have different loyalties outside the group. The implemented "lets just wander around aimlessly in different directions" approach is sloppy and annoying though

But obviously a lot of the inconsistencies come from the design approach to make each city more or less self-contained…

Originally Posted by JDR13
Perhaps, but my quote was taken directly from the Gothic 3 manual. Why would Orcs arriving at Khorinis *after* the fall of the barrier have to be the same ones?

Because you fight the ones who arrived and erected the barricade in G2 lol

Originally Posted by yeberion
Because you fight the ones who arrived and erected the barricade in G2 lol

And how would that prove that all the Orcs occupying Myrtana in G3 were part of that group?

Originally Posted by JDR13
And how would that prove that all the Orcs occupying Myrtana in G3 were part of that group?

It seems like an extremely poor storyline if a bunch of random orcs arrived to khoronis when the barrier fell, to fight the paladins and our hero under beliars orders, and then leave to allow another bunch of orcs fighting for beliar to round up people like thorus and take them to Myrtana.. Obviously they were meant to be the same orcs and the developers wrote the little story in the manual as a cop out..

Also I just returned to the valley of mines in G2 last night and one of the dragon hunters said the orcs on the mainland were leaving every town in destruction and were camped outside vengard. So that also doesn't seem very consistent with the manuals description of G3s orcs..

I know I look into it a bit too much and even G1 and G2 were inconsistent, when you consider in G1 he left the sleepers temple but in G2 hes crushed by rocks.. I just thought G3 had a terrible plot is all.

Originally Posted by Maylander

Spoiler – Lee vs King Rhobar

Just a little comment on this one. You can help Lee get his revenge on the king in G3 by handing him a portal stone to the capitol, then meeting him there. You'll have to help him a bit in the fight vs the king though, as the king is significantly tougher than Lee is. I prefer using Heal Other on Lee during this event.

Oh ok, thats my mistake then.. My first round playing I killed the king for the orcs before I even went to Varant lol.. Playing the new patch I'm not liberating anything until the very end though so guess I'll see it then

I am not enjoying Gothic 3 either , i agree with the OP on graphics and artwork but so far i don't know where i am on the map , i don't know where to find trainers (ok i found 1 guy to teach me using the bow but i need to hunt shy deer and i suck on bow) , i don't understand how to level and combat is really really bad -specially archery… even Oblivion has a far better model .

I own Gothic World so i was able to install G2 , after the long introduction i went out to help a guy with some bandits, i fell unconscious after 1 hit or something , i tried a second time before uninstalling it .
Why they don't make a "ridiculously easy" difficulty setting so we can learn the game before moving to more challenging ones ?

Why they don't make a "ridiculously easy" difficulty setting so we can learn the game before moving to more challenging ones ?

In that case, why not just go into GodMode for a while so you can figure it out. It's not that bad once you get used to it.

Originally Posted by Tragos
Why they don't make a "ridiculously easy" difficulty setting so we can learn the game before moving to more challenging ones ?

Because there are enough idiot-friendly games. I mean no offence but I like to start and play hard. I don't want to kill dozens of enemies just because I'm newbie.

Originally Posted by Tragos
I am not enjoying Gothic 3 either , i agree with the OP on graphics and artwork but so far i don't know where i am on the map , i don't know where to find trainers (ok i found 1 guy to teach me using the bow but i need to hunt shy deer and i suck on bow) , i don't understand how to level and combat is really really bad -specially archery… even Oblivion has a far better model .

I own Gothic World so i was able to install G2 , after the long introduction i went out to help a guy with some bandits, i fell unconscious after 1 hit or something , i tried a second time before uninstalling it .
Why they don't make a "ridiculously easy" difficulty setting so we can learn the game before moving to more challenging ones ?

You're joking right?!? The game is already easy enough. When I start out with a game, I save as often as possible -> It's because I expect to take a wrong turn in a game where I find a bigger enemy I can't defeat yet.
You don't have to go to the bandit's cave immediately and therefore you were punished by still doing so. How do you think RL is? If you don't do something to train and get tougher other people will just simply kick your but when you pick a fight with them.
Play games, not interactive movies!

Take it easy, guys!

Originally Posted by Tragos
I am not enjoying Gothic 3 either , i agree with the OP on graphics and artwork but so far i don't know where i am on the map , i don't know where to find trainers (ok i found 1 guy to teach me using the bow but i need to hunt shy deer and i suck on bow) , i don't understand how to level and combat is really really bad -specially archery… even Oblivion has a far better model.

Especially archery is good in Gothic 3, IMHO. Mellee combat sucks though. If you don't understand how to level, you should consult your manual.

I own Gothic World so i was able to install G2 , after the long introduction i went out to help a guy with some bandits, i fell unconscious after 1 hit or something , i tried a second time before uninstalling it .
Why they don't make a "ridiculously easy" difficulty setting so we can learn the game before moving to more challenging ones ?

Gothic Universe doesn't include Gothic 2. The game you played is Gothic 2 Gold. It's well known for its incredibly high difficulty level.
Regarding the bandits:
a) It was your decision to enter the cave. This fight can be won by using the scrolls you should have already found, but it's definitely not a piece of cake, even for an expert Gothic player. You could also have decided against entering the cave.
b) This quest has an alternative solution. You could have talked the bandit outside the cave into warning you there's a price on your head. You would have found out much later who is behind all this.

Originally Posted by fragonard
In that case, why not just go into GodMode for a while so you can figure it out. It's not that bad once you get used to it.

Because i can not learn anything in godmode , like dodging , weapon reach , attack speed etc , those can not be tested without taking damage.

Originally Posted by Bartacus
You're joking right?!? The game is already easy enough. When I start out with a game, I save as often as possible -> It's because I expect to take a wrong turn in a game where I find a bigger enemy I can't defeat yet.
You don't have to go to the bandit's cave immediately and therefore you were punished by still doing so. How do you think RL is? If you don't do something to train and get tougher other people will just simply kick your but when you pick a fight with them.
Play games, not interactive movies!

I have no problem getting punished for doing stupid things , this is the most interesting part of RPGs but one hit dead thing is very very frustrating , i didn't even had the chance to exchange some blows just to see how battle is .
I always play games on the easiest setting with AI perks off and i don't remember having a worst first 10' in any other game .

Originally Posted by Gorath
Take it easy, guys!

Especially archery is good in Gothic 3, IMHO. Mellee combat sucks though. If you don't understand how to level, you should consult your manual.

No Archery is not good , now that i am thinking again of it , even Morrowind had it better , or at least i could aim + rapid fire .
My problem starts from the fact that i can not see myself on the map (thus i can not return to trainers , have to remember all forest locations , where to turn etc)

Originally Posted by Gorath
Gothic Universe doesn't include Gothic 2. The game you played is Gothic 2 Gold. It's well known for its incredibly high difficulty level.
Regarding the bandits:
a) It was your decision to enter the cave. This fight can be won by using the scrolls you should have already found, but it's definitely not a piece of cake, even for an expert Gothic player. You could also have decided against entering the cave.
b) This quest has an alternative solution. You could have talked the bandit outside the cave into warning you there's a price on your head. You would have found out much later who is behind all this.

"Not a piece of cake" = death at first sight for me , looks like those games are not n00b friendly , if a new gamer doesn't have the chance to jump into action inside the first 10' then how they are suppose to attract more audience ?
I had same problems with the original release of "The Witcher" where "easy" setting wasn't easy enough but it wasn't as devastated as the Gothics

I had same problems with the original release of "The Witcher" where "easy" setting wasn't easy enough but it wasn't as devastated as the Gothics

You have got to be joking, "The Witcher" not easy enough on easy setting?????

I can understand you have some problems with G3… but the witcher not easy enough on easy setting???? I mean I played it through on the hard setting and found it way way too easy?!?!?!? You cannot be serious………

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
You have got to be joking, "The Witcher" not easy enough on easy setting?????

I can understand you have some problems with G3… but the witcher not easy enough on easy setting???? I mean I played it through on the hard setting and found it way way too easy?!?!?!? You cannot be serious………

Of course i am serious , i couldn't even beat that evil spirit in Act 2's cave and i did try a variety of potions.
Maybe you are just a much better gamer from me.

Looks like so, I did play games since I was like a few years old… so I guess I learned a lot during that time. Basically I would say, don't worry…. if you keep playing you will get better and better… don't give up easily and enjoy a challange after all it is passing a challange which make you better.

I would also reccomend if one approach does not work… think about another one.. try to think of what possible weakness your enemy could have etc….. and in the witcher….. drink the healing potion which heals you over time and learn to do a combo after practice I am quite sure you could do a perfect combo everytime.

Originally Posted by Tragos
or at least i could aim + rapid fire .

This sentence showed me that games like Gothic might not even be your playing style.

It's as simple as that. You just don't fit into some clothes, shoes or seats of cars. Just because they don't fit you.

Therefore it might well be that your playing style is directly influenced by action RPGs - and Gothic is no action RPG !

Gothic is about THINKING - first, and that's most important !

You MUST decide upon a surviving strategy ! I stress that, because this is a lot different than in action-RPGs !

The far hardest game in that respect was Evil Islands for me - The difficulty was very hard for my taste, and I just didn't have the nerve to carefully plan every few metres … Otherwise this game was quite some fun.

Old School games like Gothic make you extraordinarily whimpy in the beginning - which is also unlike in many Action-RPGs. Even in easiest mode, you can kill quite a lot of creatures in D2/LOD, but in Gothic EVERY beat might be the death-blow !

Gothic is insofar an excellent learning tool in that it FORCES you to learn to take care about yourself ! Your self - that is what needs to be protected first. It's very much like in real life, in that respect.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
snip

I am a RPGer that mostly if not exclusively plays archers , rapid firing with a bow is a common tactic (as it is sneaking/snipping), unfortunately in Gothic universe using a bow is not an option because archery is horrible .
Morrowind starts you as a weakling too but although it can be very hard it does give you a chance to learn it's tricks , Gothic maybe does too but not without a big amount of frustration first.

Although i did spent sometime in Gothic 3's world (made it up to the point where an Orc guard blocked my passage to the mountains ) the only viable strategy was to mash the mouse swinging hero's sword and eat a lot of health plants , also "praying" to get more hitpoints.


No i am not playing FPS at all and only tried very few hack n slash ones.

I also tend to play archers, and I played Gothic 1 halfway through with that - in one of my earlier tries I just ran out of arrows in Act I, and I didn't have any points left to be able to develop my character so much that I could defeat the bigger creatures left behind with a sword or so.

That was a kind of stopper for me, something that had seemingly never been found through testing or so.

I'm still keeping away from Gothic 3, by the way, maybe in 5 years my machine will be able to handle it, I believe …

And I have been keeping away from Gothic 2 because I only know the rather difficult Gold version of it …

And here we see yet another interpretation of one mans style. I played G1 from start to finish with no melee weapon, just the bow. There were so many arrows i lost count, it was normal for Diego to have over 10,000 and Darrion 8,000 - it's the way you spread your trade through the chapters via the traders before depletion (it affects the multiple replenish factor)
Similar with G3 up into higher levels, give it a try. The gothics are easy once mastered. G3 archery is second to none.