What is a cRPG?

I think Crpg is a stupid name of a genre, I mean C as in Computer, that tells us nothing….. we already know Gothic or Diablo or Wizardry are computer games, I mean we don't call it CFPS, or CSIM, or CSTRATEGY. I think it is much better to use names like ARPG ( action RPG ) TRPG ( tactical RPG ) JRPG ( japanese RPG ) etc, much better than knowing it is a Computer game, I do not think the risk is very great that we go to the store buying the new diablo 3 box thinking we bought a tabletop RPG, or a RPG book……………………

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
I think Crpg is a stupid name of a genre, I mean C as in Computer, that tells us nothing…

It's not a genre name. The genre name is already RPG. At least that's what you see when you go to an online shop selling cRPGs. The "c" is only necessary for discussion in groups that deal with both, tabletop RPGs and cRPGs, in order to avoid confusion. As I'm often writing on forums that deal with both types of RPGs, I try to be unambiguous in this regard.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
I think Crpg is a stupid name of a genre, I mean C as in Computer, that tells us nothing….. we already know Gothic or Diablo or Wizardry are computer games, I mean we don't call it CFPS, or CSIM, or CSTRATEGY. I think it is much better to use names like ARPG ( action RPG ) TRPG ( tactical RPG ) JRPG ( japanese RPG ) etc, much better than knowing it is a Computer game, I do not think the risk is very great that we go to the store buying the new diablo 3 box thinking we bought a tabletop RPG, or a RPG book……………………

I think cRPG provides the same context as aRPG, jRPG or sRPG (strategy-RPG)

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
I think Crpg is a stupid name of a genre, I mean C as in Computer, that tells us nothing….. we already know Gothic or Diablo or Wizardry are computer games, I mean we don't call it CFPS, or CSIM, or CSTRATEGY. I think it is much better to use names like ARPG ( action RPG ) TRPG ( tactical RPG ) JRPG ( japanese RPG ) etc, much better than knowing it is a Computer game, I do not think the risk is very great that we go to the store buying the new diablo 3 box thinking we bought a tabletop RPG, or a RPG book……………………

It's because of the confusion between PnP RPG, and other kinds of RPGs - like console RPGs. For some reason, some people use the same acronym for console RPGs, so that's not too helpful in terms of clarification.

But I think it's good form to use CRPG whenever there's the possibility of confusion, and I specifically refer to COMPUTER role-playing games, and I believe that's the correct way of using this acronym.

If the US government had decided in 1974 to create the ultimate computer RPG, like it decided to put a man on the moon the decade before, this genre would definitely be easier for us all to understand today. It makes sense then for us to remember that businesses created these games, working within their own individual limits and financial realities.

So while it certainly makes sense to consider the kinds of CRPGs companies have created and how their designs have progressed, it would be a mistake to consider that a true measure of the potential of these games. We should keep in mind the original idea, the one these computer games emulate and interpret and try to imagine how it might be done differently and better.

I have come across I term today I didn't know.

It's the "tactical RPG" as presented here: http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=12758

What is an "tactical RPG" anyway ?

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I have come across I term today I didn't know.

It's the "tactical RPG" as presented here: http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=12758

What is an "tactical RPG" anyway ?

I look at it as something like 'Hammer & Sickle' - it is more of a tactical shooter (like Silent Storm) but with a RPG system placed on top of it.

I contrast that with a sRPG, or strategy RPG, where it is a turn-based strategy game with significant RPG elements.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I have come across I term today I didn't know.

It's the "tactical RPG" as presented here: http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=12758

What is an "tactical RPG" anyway ?

Tactical RPG is usually one in which during battles you control a squad of units (units can be characters, armies, platoons, whatever) and solve them using tactics (as opposed to like… action). For example, Dungeon Siege is not tactical even though you control a group of characters as most of it is action. The older D&D games like the gold box games can be considered tactical, but the real core of tactical games usually have more things to consider other than just your 'party' or 'army' composition. They add things like elevation (higher ground gives bonuses), facing (attacking a flank or rear gives bonuses), terrain (units are better in forests, others in deserts, water, etc), weaknesses and strengths (usually rock/paper/scissors units), movement rate, etc. They're most usually turn-based games, as the sheer number of variables to consider would be almost impossible to approach in real-time.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I have come across I term today I didn't know.

It's the "tactical RPG" as presented here: http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=12758

What is an "tactical RPG" anyway ?

Originally Posted by txa1265
I look at it as something like 'Hammer & Sickle' - it is more of a tactical shooter (like Silent Storm) but with a RPG system placed on top of it.

I contrast that with a sRPG, or strategy RPG, where it is a turn-based strategy game with significant RPG elements.

IMO, any RPG that doesn't put an emphasis on tactical decision-making is missing a significant RPG element.

I am currently developing a T-RPG, it basically means the combat focus very much on tactical decisions it is ussually turn-based, and you typically have more units at your disposal than in a party based RPG.

An S-RPG would be more like a RTS where you produce units, reasource management etc etc etc.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
I am currently developing a T-RPG, it basically means the combat focus very much on tactical decisions it is ussually turn-based, and you typically have more units at your disposal than in a party based RPG.

An S-RPG would be more like a RTS where you produce units, reasource management etc etc etc.

Sounds good, though I love S-RPG's, I must say.

In any case, good luck with your endeavour.

Originally Posted by Squeek
IMO, any RPG that doesn't put an emphasis on tactical decision-making is missing a significant RPG element.

I think you just described why so many modern CRPGs don't work for us old-timers

Originally Posted by Prime Junta
"Once more round the block, driver."
(snip)

If I did this exercise, I believe I would find that characteristics that engender cRPG-ness include things like:

1 Character progression, with player choice involved in the progression
2 PC/NPC interaction on a more meaningful level than "Follow me!" "Bang! You're dead!" or non-interactive monologue; ideally, this should lead to some level of emotional engagement with the NPC's.
3 PC/environment interaction on a more meaningful level than "pick up key card/open door."
4 The illusion of player choices that have a noticeable impact on the game world or story.

This doesn't mean that a game has to have all of these to qualify as a cRPG.

This is one of those "everybody has one" questions, so here's my input.

As Prime Junta says, there is no one definition of what a cRPG is, but there is very general framework.

1. All RPG are based in the old Dungeon & Dragons rules, and I am talking the board games (which include Prime Junta's comments)
2. Essentially various aspects of the game are tracked by numbers or scores
3. The scores have an effect on the game in general and include; your Avatar's stats, weapon stats, armor stats, magic stats, social interactions, etc.
4. The various stats are used to calculate the effectiveness of your Avatar/weapon/armor/magic in combat and other interactions

What cRPG has done is take all the paper-and-pencil, board, and dice requirements of the Dungeon & Dragons board game rules and computerized them.

Now if you combine my list with Prime Junta's comments, and other posts in this thread, you can see that there is an overlap when you discuss the genres of Adventure, FPS, and RPG gaming. In other words, in today's computer-world the border between these game genres have become blurred.

Then there is the OTHER cRPG (console RPG!!!!) which is a different animal though it didn't start out that way. Of course some refer to those as JRPGs but they're not all Japanese (or are they?)

Hmmm…

The way I understand all this after reading through a lot of the comments here as well as some other places (I actually came across this question from a google search and found also a reddit thread on it and a steam thread) is that the naming of cRPG is not exactly correct in terms of Computer Role Playing Game anymore.

Again, this is from what I gather from things I read but also to what makes sense to me after all these years.

cRPG came to be as a term in the early days of computer rpgs to distinguish between pen and paper table top what have you, and the computer driven rpgs.

At which point it continued as a term wrongly for a long time in my opinion. For a time I actually remember distinctly the cRPG name not existing at all (around the years 1998 to 2005 I'd say?) and the term RPG being used alone.

It then came back into use for games such as Path of Exile, Torchlight if I am not mistaken among others like Divintiy .

At which point I think it makes more sense to come to the conclusion that it now means Classic Role Playing Game in reference to the first fixed view role playing games we experienced in the late 90's.

ARPG is also a more solid term that came around a while later than the birth of such games, since Diablo was always called a Hack n Slash RPG (was into both D1 and D2 a lot back in the day, aRPG was never a term I saw used). Hack n Slash RPG is indeed a clumsy name, and ARPG simply fits better for that genre.

Most studios simply name their game "RPG" and be done with it.

All that aside, what makes an RPG an RPG is not necessarily the story in my opinion, but the character freedom one has. This freedom needs to be of course backed up by a good story, otherwise it backfires on the character as well limiting that freedom.

Games such as Mass Effect for example. Widely accepted as an RPG, when for me it never really felt like one. It don't matter how interesting the story is and how many options it has or multiple endings or what not, it simply (for me that is) means that it has RPG elements in it that are also done really well.

An RPG to my understanding is about role playing, this is all a matter of creating those roles or shaping them and character creation, which in end is what makes the entire character stats, skills and progression within a class meaningful. Mass Effect on the other hand did not have either a great character customisation neither character creation model, and as an RPG it suffered a lot from this in my opinion.

Where do we draw the line in what is an RPG and what isn't? There I think. Otherwise Max Payne is an RPG because it has a detailed story as is The Force Unleashed because it has different endings based on your choices.

Sure its a fine line, but creating a great story with different paths and options in it is not in my opinion what defines an RPG and a title that has this alone and lacks in the character creation aspect lacks in the Role Playing aspect which then simply makes it not an RPG for me and I think this is what it all comes down to.

Even in DnD. The core was not about the story, it was about playing roles, the ruleset, classes, etc. If some lousy Dmaster came along with a lousy story with little options and deapth, then we could not blame it on the games design and say "this is not an RPG", instead we would simply say "dude, your story s*cks".

Now do it the other way around. If a really dedicated Dmaster comes along with an awesome deep long story, however tells you that you can only experience it as Conan the Barbarian because hey, thats' who the story is for, then the problem is not the story, its that it is simply not a role playing game at that moment. Even if they go as far as giving you said options of "ok you are Conan but you can chose if you are a shield and axe wielding warrior, a two handed warrior, an archer, or a thief". Still limited within that same experience just alters some variables as opposed to one being able to create their own character.

That is what the core element to an RPG is in my opinion, and why although games like Diablo back in the day and PoE today can be considered RPGs, even though their stories are completely linear and stretching that meaning of an RPG thin, they still hold to its core and biggest aspect… character creation.

Thus a game like Fallout 3 could be in my opinion still considered an RPG, and not a FPS. The combat and experience being a certain way or another and being the largest part of the game does not alter the fact that in the end, you are playing your own character you created even within a linear story. We can just say at that point, in the case that a story is too linear, that it is simply lacking.

End of the day, these names get swaped and used and re-used all the time. Developers usually go more for just using the term RPG and thats the end of it from their end. Genres and sub-genres can be defined from there on to differentiate the experience, and I don't think these need to stick to the same naming they had for example 15 years ago.

There is a huge use of late from even such sources as Eurogamer, PC Gamer, IGN, etc, of the term classic-rpg, and I think this re-emergence of the term has people confused since the original use of it was indeed computer rpg hence why cRPG gets a little lost in translation now.

RPG is what governs it all.
Sub genres from there on could be cRPG, aRPG and some even go as far as using the term fpRPG for first person RPG's. I think that is too much. cRPG is a term that simply points to the now dated but still wonderful in my opinion top-down fixed camera role playing games like those of old. aRPG could indicate that although a game for role playing, it is much more action oriented hence lacks in story options and not a proper rpg. And plain RPG refers to all other 3rd person or 1st person RPG's since 3rd and 1st person is the norm of gaming more or less in our time.

My vote for cRPG as a term and how it should be used in our time is classic-Role Playing Game.

Damn, just saw the dates on this thread… So I guess I time travelled here right guys?

Yeah, this is around the time when the term was starting to be used again… Well, for any matter, I think my reply stands more as a response to what it is or should be like today, since now we see a large use of the term classic-RPG used more.

Here's an article about this question.

And a big thread.

And a web-assistant: The CRPG-Analyzer

Awesome. Would love to add that to the reads and see how much my understanding differs from these and how much I will alter it again I presume

Welcome to the Watch

Thnx, nice to be part of it

p.s, just finished the article right now…. Awesome read I must say. Cheers.